Advertise on fullfatrr.com »

Home > General > L322 reliability
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 2 of 2 <12
Print this entire topic · 
cliff5.0sc



Member Since: 29 Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 137

No problem. Part of the reason of the issues with the early L322 is about its birth. It was born out of a BMW and potential X7 platform, which LR engineers had significant issues with in terms of philosophy, from everything from steering, to interior, to suspension. So the great vision of what could have been quickly was dashed and led a divorce. There were grand visions of a V12 powered L322 with fully finished back, fully leather door panes, and rear torsen. None of these were realized and eventually the "English patient" as BMW engineers described LR/RR turned to how to divorce. So at some point it was rumored that the development basically shifted from "let's make a great car" to "let's get this done." This translated into an engine and transmission that were already obsolete and not used on BMW's by the time the L322 made it to market. Unfortunately they weren't some sort of "bullet proof" old designs the ZF 5 speed and transmission used in early Diesel L322s were basically "Swiss cheese" or "time bombs." The 4.4 BMW engine couldn't pass USA emissions without being run at a very high temperature. And neither was really tested the way they should have been for the extreme conditions facing RRs, for example the 4.4 PCVs have issues in sub freezing temperatures unless they are modified. What BMW did do was build a very advanced chassis for the later versions to be built upon.

Once Ford got ahold of RR/LR they immediately started to address some issues that were serious and began planning for the future. The Jaguar sourced 4.2L AJv8 was very reliable at the time it made it into the RR. The ZF six speed was also extremely reliable especially if you changed the oil every 70k miles. The running gear was then upgraded to e locking differentials units. The transfer case is more reliable Imo. As 2009 came, it was clear Ford fully realized the original vision of the L322 with the autobiography package which was now a specification level and not just a demarkation of a certain number of options/accessories.

I go into this a much more fully in the book, but its clear from interviews conducted and internet owners reporting the early 5.0L engines were not reliable and had huge issues with timing. The fact the cam sprocket tension was part of the timing was a critical error that is both difficult to fix and causes issues. Even extending into 2013 engines my former mechanic had many clients who brought in 5.0s for timing issues, about 3-4 per week. It can be argued I believe that Ford actually was interested in reliability but Tata pushed the boundaries and perhaps focused on deliverables over reliability. OffRoadRover.com An American Western Range Rover Off Road Blog


Last edited by cliff5.0sc on 25th May 2017 6:24pm. Edited 3 times in total

Post #439597 25th May 2017 6:21pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Flashman



Member Since: 05 Jun 2011
Location: Windsor & Brentwood
Posts: 1227

England 2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

When people are happy they never complain or post how great things are, the core reason why people post is to find help or solutions.

That being said, I am very impressed with the reliability on my Td6. It has done just shy of 170k miles and the only major work it needed was a new gearbox at 137k. All other work is standard suspension or brake related maintenance which is of no surprise on any car over 10 years old. Compared to my old Classic the L322 is incredibly well built and reliable, although I still miss the grandfather of luxury off roaders even with its build quirks.

With any car it will always be a bit of pot luck if you get a reliable one, but even with issues there is a wealth of info on here, some incredibly helpful forum members and a mountain of easy to obtain spare parts (used and new) on the web. Don't let the scare stories put you off, the L322 is a true King among road vehicles...... Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

Post #439598 25th May 2017 6:22pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
PicnicSteve



Member Since: 01 Jun 2015
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 30

United Kingdom 2007 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Java Black

Geeezeeee I have a 2007 vogue had it for two years with no issues ...... now having nightmares 😰😰😰

Post #440021 29th May 2017 8:27pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
sheep911uk



Member Since: 09 May 2017
Location: Northampton
Posts: 30

United Kingdom 

Looks like I need to find one with good history, recent gearbox change and been well looked after

Post #440030 29th May 2017 9:12pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lukie



Member Since: 27 Sep 2016
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 433

2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zambezi Silver
Re: Timing guides and front struts

daz62 wrote:
Ask if the timing guides have been replaced, from my research they can go as early as 90k miles or last almost twice that. It is a £2k to £3k job if you cannot do it yourself.

Mine went at 145k miles, I found it so hard to find someone to actually quote for the job let alone actually do it, I did the job myself. I did a thorough job, camshaft chains, sprockets and tensioners, main chain, guides, tensioners , water pump, new belts, gaskets etc.

Early days yet but it is quiet as a sewing machine and runs beautifully, time will tell if I get any oil or water leaks. Fingers crossed.

Front struts seem to go at about 100k miles, mine both went within a couple of weeks of each other at about 110k miles. Easy enough diy job.


In case anyone else is reading this, I can recommend birch motors here in Liverpool, had my car is to do the chain guides was a little over £1000 for me

Post #440033 29th May 2017 9:27pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Crispian22



Member Since: 25 May 2017
Location: Midlands
Posts: 132

United Kingdom 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Zermatt Silver

Having had mercedes for many years,I can tell you that this forum is very quiet regards problems compared to a big Mercedes forum I am on.

I would say that the Mercs are easier to fix when things do go wrong and the diagnostic software is easy to use,but there are more owners reporting problems.

Post #440054 30th May 2017 6:45am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
cliff5.0sc



Member Since: 29 Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 137

Well there are a less ff l322 owners then mercedes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M-Class



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_Rover OffRoadRover.com An American Western Range Rover Off Road Blog

Post #440459 2nd Jun 2017 5:12pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Sandyt



Member Since: 07 Nov 2013
Location: Wraysbury Windsor
Posts: 2212

United Kingdom 2007 Range Rover Supercharged 4.2 SC V8 Buckingham Blue

To be honest they all come with a few niggles any vehicle from a polo upwards needs at least 500 quid a year for maintenance if you don't spend it the cost will be greater and the bigger the car the more it costs - I have a p38 that is now 20 years old still runs and when the fault reader is put on no faults found but it has cost a lot over those years to keep it like that
There is no cheap way to run a Range Rover and they are all good if you look after them ( mine is in now for all new belts tensioners and water pump - all working ok but there is a dry bearing somewhere and its done 144k and 10 years old this month so to me makes sense to change the lot better than a failure ,

Post #440504 3rd Jun 2017 4:41am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
axle



Member Since: 28 Oct 2007
Location: Perth Perth the end of the Earth
Posts: 2964

Australia 2008 Range Rover Supercharged 4.2 SC V8 Rimini Red

Quote:

No problem. Part of the reason of the issues with the early L322 is about its birth. It was born out of a BMW and potential X7 platform, which LR engineers had significant issues with in terms of philosophy, from everything from steering, to interior, to suspension. So the great vision of what could have been quickly was dashed and led a divorce. There were grand visions of a V12 powered L322 with fully finished back, fully leather door panes, and rear torsen. None of these were realized and eventually the "English patient" as BMW engineers described LR/RR turned to how to divorce. So at some point it was rumored that the development basically shifted from "let's make a great car" to "let's get this done." This translated into an engine and transmission that were already obsolete and not used on BMW's by the time the L322 made it to market. Unfortunately they weren't some sort of "bullet proof" old designs the ZF 5 speed and transmission used in early Diesel L322s were basically "Swiss cheese" or "time bombs." The 4.4 BMW engine couldn't pass USA emissions without being run at a very high temperature. And neither was really tested the way they should have been for the extreme conditions facing RRs, for example the 4.4 PCVs have issues in sub freezing temperatures unless they are modified. What BMW did do was build a very advanced chassis for the later versions to be built upon.




Your first statement is I'm afraid inaccurate, the "English patient" was Rover cars a separate entity entirely and BMW in fact were desperate to keep Land Rover and the future profits they could see on the horizon once they had updated the range but the UK government wanted to keep them together to represent a "UK car industry" and told BMW they had to sell them both off not realising that any potential buyer (Ford) would only be interested in the same thing, faced with the loss of a reported 1 billion dollars in development BMW then lost interest in the L322 project .
 2008 MY Supercharged
Rimini Red / Jet
four zone climate
remote park heater
and no ugly kid windows.
magnus satis quod turpis satis

Post #440506 3rd Jun 2017 5:56am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
cliff5.0sc



Member Since: 29 Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 137

Sandyt wrote:
To be honest they all come with a few niggles any vehicle from a polo upwards needs at least 500 quid a year for maintenance if you don't spend it the cost will be greater and the bigger the car the more it costs - I have a p38 that is now 20 years old still runs and when the fault reader is put on no faults found but it has cost a lot over those years to keep it like that
There is no cheap way to run a Range Rover and they are all good if you look after them ( mine is in now for all new belts tensioners and water pump - all working ok but there is a dry bearing somewhere and its done 144k and 10 years old this month so to me makes sense to change the lot better than a failure ,


I appreciate the sentiment but it is just not pragmatic. there are huge differences in reliability of the sub componenets such as the transmission. The 5hp is known to be much less reliable than the 6hp. The gm 5l40-e is also known to be much less reliable. OffRoadRover.com An American Western Range Rover Off Road Blog


Last edited by cliff5.0sc on 4th Jun 2017 3:10pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #440631 4th Jun 2017 2:53pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
cliff5.0sc



Member Since: 29 Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 137

axle wrote:
Quote:


Your first statement is I'm afraid inaccurate, the "English patient" was Rover cars a separate entity entirely and BMW in fact were desperate to keep Land Rover and the future profits they could see on the horizon once they had updated the range but the UK government wanted to keep them together to represent a "UK car industry" and told BMW they had to sell them both off not realising that any potential buyer (Ford) would only be interested in the same thing, faced with the loss of a reported 1 billion dollars in development BMW then lost interest in the L322 project .


Well i researched my book for three years and have come acrosss many sources confirming what i said and none contradicting it. There are several thoughts that come to mind.

1) mini and rolls royce was kept by bmw thus perhaps disproving your statement that the British cars being sold together (by bmw).

2) other sources also mention the fact bmw wanted to sell land rover including the Range Rover: 40 years of 4x4 by James Taylor. Its a great book.

3) people on the bmw side also said the same thing as James Taylor and at least three other sources. There were significant ideological differences that caused the divorce with land rover. Both sides wanted out. I understand that the straw on the camels back was an argument over the suspension.

we can agree to disagree but my statement is supported by many facts from various respected and informed sources but i am always looking to learn and understand more. OffRoadRover.com An American Western Range Rover Off Road Blog

Post #440634 4th Jun 2017 2:59pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Post Reply
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 2 of 2 <12
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
fullfatrr.com RSS Feed - All Forums


Switch to Mobile site