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crowebeard



Member Since: 19 Dec 2016
Location: Devon
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Giverny Green
Re-engine or scrap?

Hi all, thought I would open this up to the forum for a bit of advice, you know a problem shared etc....

Following a potential head gasket failure that I posted about in another thread, the garage started it up and heard a hideous noise coming from the engine (which didn't sound like just a head gasket) and shut it down pronto.

They have had a borescope in the cylinders to see if the noise was top end damage, however nothing was seen and their opinion is that the crankshaft has overheated and is now out of true. With all the labour costs that would be incurred stripping the engine down to confirm their suspicions they have recommended that it is probably more cost effective to bite the bullet and put in a new (reconditioned) engine. Big Cry

It probably is a fine balance whether it is financially viable to re-engine, but I want to scope it out anyway as if the car could last another 5-6+ years it would be worth it (to me at least!). Does collective wisdom of the forum know of a reputable suppler of a reconditioned M62 engine? Fleabay is not an option Laughing

If I was to replace the engine I would take the opportunity to renew the radiator, gearbox intercooler and water pump. Is there anything else I should consider changing at the same time? David

2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 (LPG)
2015 Mazda CX-5
2003 Porsche Boxster

Post #475994 16th Apr 2018 1:40pm
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PaulTyrer



Member Since: 22 Jul 2013
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire
Posts: 1036

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Epsom Green

It may not be relevant (probably not!), but I think it may have been back in 2006 we had a 4.6 P38 Range Rover which at the time was I think around 7-8 years old.

We had what appeared to be a blown head gasket but when the heads were taken off they found that it was a crack in the block between no1 and 2 cylinders, which I understood was a common failure, owing to a combination of weak mixture (emissions) and Land Rover boring out the old 3.5 litre lump to 4.6 litres.

Anyhow, the rest of the car was in pretty good shape and the independent garage tat did the work replaced the engine with a reconditioned 'short' motor, which I think is the lower end of the engine block and your original heads etc go back on.

After having that done we had another 5-6 years of trouble free motoring with it, until we bought the L322 that is!!

Is it possible that you could get a 'short' engine replacement?

Post #475999 16th Apr 2018 2:48pm
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knares



Member Since: 22 Jun 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 191

Australia 2005 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zambezi Silver

crankshaft has overheated and is now out of true
WOW RR 2005 4.4 petrol

Post #476013 16th Apr 2018 4:15pm
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crowebeard



Member Since: 19 Dec 2016
Location: Devon
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Giverny Green

Paul - Thanks for the suggestion, I will do some digging around and see if sourcing a short engine would be viable.

Knares - I know, sounds crazy doesn't it. That was the only explanation the garage could come up with for the noise it was making,... David

2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 (LPG)
2015 Mazda CX-5
2003 Porsche Boxster

Post #476017 16th Apr 2018 4:30pm
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PaulTyrer



Member Since: 22 Jul 2013
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire
Posts: 1036

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Epsom Green

I've just been reading your other post about the head gasket failure. Hadnt realised it was an LPG conversion. The noise isn't something to do with the LPG conversion is it?

Post #476067 17th Apr 2018 1:16pm
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Dolphinboy



Member Since: 08 Dec 2009
Location: SW
Posts: 1836

United Kingdom 2004 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 V8 Epsom Green

have you thought about your chains adn guides? they make a horrible noise when the guides go! Costs c. £3,000 for replacement. (I know Ive been there. However all good now - on 191,000 miles) .....

Post #476072 17th Apr 2018 2:11pm
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m@ttsFF



Member Since: 12 Dec 2017
Location: Surrey
Posts: 123

United Kingdom 

I wouldn’t necessarily rule out ebay

These might be worth a call ? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=ht...2849754311 4.2 SC

Post #476075 17th Apr 2018 3:02pm
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crowebeard



Member Since: 19 Dec 2016
Location: Devon
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Giverny Green

Thanks for the help guys, I went over to the garage today and had another look. I got them to start it up and manged to grab a few seconds of video.

It doesn't sounds to me as if it's anything rotary such as chains and guides, nor an issue with the LPG (which was only fitted 8000 miles ago).



With the cooling pipes broken underneath and what sounds like compression problems, it's not looking good whatever the causes are!

M@ttsFF thanks for the llink, I hadn't seen that one. I'll post later once i've done some man maths on the options that are starting to emerge! David

2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 (LPG)
2015 Mazda CX-5
2003 Porsche Boxster

Post #476080 17th Apr 2018 5:13pm
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PaulTyrer



Member Since: 22 Jul 2013
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire
Posts: 1036

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Epsom Green

To me that doesn't sound like a crankshaft issue. I used to have a Triumph Spitfire and the oil pump failed on the M6 which caused one of the big ends to cream the bearing shell. The engine still ran but it was making a really deep 'thumping' sound.

That sounds like its a loose shaft somehow, or maybe something under the cam cover flapping around?

Post #476081 17th Apr 2018 5:32pm
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Zebedee



Member Since: 09 Jun 2016
Location: South Manchester
Posts: 110

United Kingdom 2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

I wouldn't necessarily discount ebay.

I sold an M62 engine from a car I dismantled via ebay for just over £1k. There was nothing wrong with it. The engine had done 128,000 miles and I just didn't need the engine as a spare.

It is the same as everything. I'm sure there are unscrupulous sellers of engines on ebay, though there are also genuine people selling things for genuine reasons. You just have to work out who is who. The buyer drove up to Cheshire from Devon (I think), had a good chat with me about everything and drove back with his engine in the back of his van.



I also had someone buy the gearbox and contacted me up a few days later saying it wouldn't fit. He brought it back and I gave him his money back. I was confused about it not fitting and said that he believed the engine and gearbox had been changed for a post 06 model sometime in its life. It was only as he was about to leave that he said that his TD6 L322 was great. As some will know, the gearbox for the diesel is completely different - of course an M62 L322 gearbox wont fit!!! 2004 4.4 Vogue (BRC LPG)
Sold: 2000 4.6 Vogue (BRC LPG)
Sold: 1981 In-Vogue
Sold: 1980 Ex-Army LWB
Sold: 1976 LWB
Sold: 1968 SIIA

Post #476085 17th Apr 2018 7:20pm
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crowebeard



Member Since: 19 Dec 2016
Location: Devon
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Giverny Green

You're right, I should perhaps be a bit more open minded about ebay, but the I didn't want to run the risk of going through all this hassle again.

As it happens, out of curiosity I phoned a local 4x4 specialist recycler close by in East Devon to find out the scrap value of the car, and he mentioned that he had an M62 engine out of an X5 that has done 90,000 miles (and could possibly dig out the paperwork to prove it) and would give 3 months warranty on it.

He said that you only need to swap the sump over to allow it to fit in an FFRR. Is it that simple or is there other adaptions that need to be made? David

2004 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 (LPG)
2015 Mazda CX-5
2003 Porsche Boxster

Post #476090 17th Apr 2018 8:14pm
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Grofus



Member Since: 24 Mar 2017
Location: Co Clare
Posts: 343

Ireland 2007 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Zermatt Silver

Timing chains sounds like a good shout. Slapping onto the guides. Guides broken up.
Its not any engine bearings. Wrong noise for that.
Have the sump off to check the crank and bearings but dont think its that. 2007 Vogue TDV8 in Zermatt Silver with Charcoal

Post #476098 17th Apr 2018 8:38pm
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wood78987



Member Since: 03 Mar 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Westminster 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

That doesn't sound like timing chain guides to me. Mine was much more rattley than that. That sounds more lumpy. 2012 Westminster 4.4 TDV8
2003 AB LE 4.4 V8 LPG (sold)

Post #476112 17th Apr 2018 10:29pm
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Paul thornton



Member Since: 23 Sep 2017
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 353

United Kingdom 

Also sounds like it's struggling to start ie, low compression. Cam chain guides wouldn't cause that either.

Post #476113 17th Apr 2018 10:39pm
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knares



Member Since: 22 Jun 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 191

Australia 2005 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zambezi Silver

Well there are noises, doesn’t sound too metallic to me.
I have my engine in bitts at the moment and I am expecting some weird sounds when I start it.
I have read about noises when first starting the motor after it being dismantled, apparently the cam followers make a frightening, terrible rattle or clatter and are quite difficult to bleed.
If you have settled on changing the motor, I would be giving it a few revs first and see what happens, but that’s me
Have you read up on bleeding the cam followers
I am new to this egine and have no experience with it at all RR 2005 4.4 petrol

Post #476118 18th Apr 2018 1:14am
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