Could'nt agree more with regards to the electric car article!

This is not a new argument and the answer is that if you start quoting the carbon footprint of electricity production, then you have to start totting up the environmental cost and CO2 footprint of oil exploration, extraction, spillages, refining and distribution as well.

Yes..... but surely someone has done the sum Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

The sum of the CO2 cost of the electricity?

Is that the nuclear, coal, gas, wind, wave or tidal figure? If it’s a mixture of all of these, how is it proportioned and do you vary it depending on the time of day, the season, the provider or the country?

fossil fuel - bad
electricity from renewable - good
electricity from fossil fuel - bad.....

walking - much better completely carbon neutral.....er no. You should then factor in the carbon footprint of the food you consume, In which case you might have eaten some beef from Argentina, pasta from Italy, etc etc..

no way of moving our bodies round Is completely carbon neutral. Some are better than others, cars are inherently bad regardless of the fuel they consume, and human power is the most efficient in most cases.

Obvioulsy if you live at the top of a hill and roll down the hill to work on a bike then that is pretty carbon neutral, until you calculate the carbon footprint of the bike itself, which is obviously a lot less than a car but still something.

you can go on and on, should it be that we should all just work at home toiling in our allotments and smallholdings eating what we produce, and not moving around the country at all... Im pretty sure we've been there before as a species, and we've moved on from there.

When we produce all our energy from renewable sources then we will have a sustainable energy supply chain which is broadly speaking low carbon (disregarding the embedded carbon in the materials and installation of the power plants) and at this point folks will be able to preach convincingly about electric vehicles. At the moment we dont have that. so they can't.

We should move towards that, we should drive cars which help move the plant towards that, however, we are but a small island and until everyone else in the world follows suit its all fighting a losing battle.

As regards diesel vehicles being clean and the comment in the article, I would deduce that the vehicle tested was a 3.yo van, which would make it a 2015, which would also make it euro6 compliant, which will make it exempt from the ULEZ zones proposed, because it is a super clean diesel, and produces next to no Nox, and bad stuff like that. The fact that is this clean when its done 250,000 miles is impressive but arguably if its done that milage in 3 years the thing has almost never been turned off!! There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

^ Diesels are still not mot tested for " emisions " only smoke output. So whether a vechicle is euro3 or euro6 is irrelevant as regards the present mot test although I imagine this may well change in due course.
Interestingly my 2004 td6 is euro 3 and when tested for smoke output is so low it doesn't register on the scale at all, what it's output of nox is I hate to imagine but until it is required to be accurately tested I shan't worry about it.
I would imagine the majority of diesels also test low for smoke, you certainly see very few diesels belching smoke like they did only a few years ago.

That’s a fair point👍🏻 My bad.

My point was more that we should expect vehicles under 3 years old to not register on the polution-o-meter.

I’m sure that some time soon they will bring in other emissions testing on all cars what with all the anti diesel sentiment around at the moment. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Minister speaks up and suggests there is room for diesel, EVENTUALLY !!!!!!!!!


Diesel cars make sense for some, says minister

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/diesel-...10ab5c02af Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Some information on electricity production, converted into mpg equivalents: https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new...et-cleaner

It's not just the carbon footprint of the car. yes an electric is zero emissions but what they save on emissions running, being manufactured they create tonnes more than a conventional internal combustion engined car. Over the cars proposed lifespan it would be debateable which one is better for the environment.

I know I've read a few articles over the years, the Toyota Prius was slated for its manufacturing footprint when first launched and Tesla aren't as 'green' as you'd expect. Batteries don't grow on trees  Current
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2001 Porsche 911 Turbo
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2002 Range Rover HSE TD6
+ Many other non LR products

Seems there are also additional carbon foot prints with electric car ownership as well. I have a friend who works in Norway for Tesla - part of thr package is a Telsa company car. Last week he had to visit Germany and then drive to Prague. The drive from Germany to Prague should be in the region of 8-9 hours except he has to stop to keep charging and there is a lack of supercharged points so he had to use the slower points. The result was it took him 2 days to do the trip and an additional over night in a hotel so when you factor in the carbon foot print of the charging,, the carbon footprint of the hotel, thr footprint of washing thr bedding/cleaning room etc afterwards then it would have been more environmentally friendly to go in a conventional car. 2008 TDV8

Interesting, first in Autocar a few weeks ago, now given an award for inovation: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/autocar...award-2018 Drives:
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue - Stornoway Grey
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue SE - Zermatt Silver
1998 BMW E36 M3 GTII

Until there is fair balance in calculating the comparable cost to the environment for all energy types including their manufacture, shipping, maintenance and replacement of both the energy source and the vehicles that consume it all arguments are purely political and guesswork.

I still don't get why hydrogen fuel cells are not being pushed as the best solution, allowing existing engines to be converted and not needing expensive and heavy battery cells (that need replacing at huge environmental and monetary cost). The current (no pun intended) electricity network is not capable of supporting everyone in electric cars so that is another issue that needs addressing. Obviously the political pressure to push new cars is all based to help industry not save the environment by making existing cars work longer.

My 2004 diesel is still going strong at 175k miles, and whilst it might give off a bit of pollution compared to new cars, its footprint is tiny compared to building a new 'cleaner' car in any fuel types. Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
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1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

rvbush wrote:

Interesting, first in Autocar a few weeks ago, now given an award for inovation: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/autocar...award-2018

Within this article , it mentions the incomplete breakdown of arbour at low temperatures.


Does that mean anytime we run our ff’s 2 miles to the shop we are going to be b g the engine up?

And the ‘stop start ‘ function , which I tend to switch off,(the article suggests stop start isn’t such a bright idea in cities anyway) won’t be doing the engine any good either... Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...