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Eirik34



Member Since: 16 Dec 2014
Location: Stavanger
Posts: 184

Norway 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Just got information from our local dealer about the P400e charging setup: When the charging of the hi voltage (Li-ion) battery is finished (full battery), then the charger automatically starts to charge the 12V car battery as well. Sounds like a good strategy!

Post #470349 28th Feb 2018 10:21am
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AbzRR



Member Since: 30 Jan 2016
Location: Banchory
Posts: 17

Scotland 2016 Range Rover Vogue SDV8 Aruba

I’ve finally got to test drive a P400e, they lent me a new RR Sport Autobiography P400e overnight. No FF RRs available as yet.

Although Autocar and Top Gear talked about the engine being harsh under load I must admit it wasn’t that bad under normal driving but once you give it some stick t’s definitely a 4-pot petrol.

First drive was about 30 miles out of town and down the motorway, back up the motorway and through built-up area to home. This was under fully ‘let it decide what to do’ mode and by the end I had only about 4 miles of battery remaining. When I parked the indicators showed about 8% battery charge.

Someone stated in a previous post that there’s always 30% remainder built in - don’t believe that.

That night I went to the next town and back on fully electric having charged it to 100% - 30 miles indicated. That meant choosing EV only which is a simple button press.

That’s 5 miles through built up 30mph / 40mph, then normal single carriageway for 8 miles, 1 mile in next town and back again. That’s about 28 miles.

Got nowhere near this range and was on petrol / ev after about 18 miles. On petrol / ev it went to 0 battery miles fairly soon after.

I’d zeroed the mpg at the start and when I switched to petrol / ev it showed 250mpg+. As soon as I had to use the engine this plummeted and at home it showed 130mpg.

The next day, with zero battery, I drove it back to the dealer, which is 4 miles, and the mpg dropped to 80mpg.

It would obviously continue to fall dramatically and I can believe Top Gear and Autocar getting 23mpg overall. My wife gets 30mpg from her SDV8 Vogue all the time and a friend gets a load more from his new V6 Vogue.

However, if you are stupid enough to spend £100k on a PHEV like this and do short journeys I guess you can avoid filling it up. But why would you do it?

Overall I thought the Sport was very comfortable and well built but it had every extra I believe including the top sound system and all electronic aids.

I’ll stick to my Tesla Model S which is a remarkable car but the FF RR is miles better in terms of comfort, storage, presence etc. If only the LR dealers were human it might help. 2016 Vogue SDV8
2009 TDV8 Westminster
2017 Tesla Model S 90D
2000 SL600
2009 SL63

Post #483268 12th Jul 2018 11:33am
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Gt3gooner



Member Since: 17 Jan 2018
Location: Oxon
Posts: 7

United Kingdom 

Just been informed my VSE Phev is being delivered on 23rd. Company car so big BiK win over anything else available, 45 miles each way commute with charging at each end so let’s see how it stacks up.

Post #483275 12th Jul 2018 1:35pm
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CS



Member Since: 14 Apr 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 686

Scotland 2017 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Corris Grey

Interesting comments thanks. It sounds like the PHEV is relevant for those needing to jump through certain hoops for tax reasons, but otherwise a poor choice. As for 23 mpg, even allowing for hard driving road testers, that compares poorly with a 5.0SC, never mind a diesel. After about 4,000 miles of admittedly mainly country roads/motorway, many of which with average speed cameras, my 5.0SC is showing an average of >25mpg, probably over-optimistic as the speedo shows a bit faster than actual, but even so. And it does not feel like a 2.0 4 cyl... Only Range Rovers since 1988

Post #483280 12th Jul 2018 2:06pm
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ilard



Member Since: 21 Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 58

United Kingdom 

Useful info on the P400e, much appreciated. 18 miles, huh? Not great. Not bad, either I feel!

What I am hoping to learn from an owner is how the car operates in default mixed mode, i.e. performance, battery life and (to a muuuuuch lesser extent) MPG. I don't really care about MPG.

Diesel is a no for me being a low mileage driver. I don't want a 5.0 SC partly because I now realise I want VSE because I have to delete too options I do not like off the AB (sliding roof, styling, exec seating) and add a heap of options not standard on AB (HUD, steer assist, paint), and, partly because it's a lifestyle choice (or however the marketing people call it) to say I drive a PHEV and not a dinosaur (albeit delicious) petrol V8.

So that's what will make me "stupid enough" to drop £100k+ on a PHEV as a private purchase.

Post #483291 12th Jul 2018 3:49pm
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex
Posts: 241

United Kingdom 

Ilard

Understanding your life style choice... assume u mean emissions, before you finally choose electric, diesels are coming a very long way, JLR are continuing their diesel 4L thru 2019, which means they must be meeting euro6 in real time driving...


There is a Porsche 4L on the market which is an A1 on emissions.....nothing gets better than a1 I haven’t looked but I doubt if a combi ie part electric/petrol fairs as well.

This bunch are doing real tests, even they (in my view bias against diesel) admit new diesel is suprinsgly good

https://equaindex.com/equa-air-quality-index/

Bill He who dies with the most toys, Wins !!!!!

Post #483299 12th Jul 2018 5:50pm
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oop north



Member Since: 29 Mar 2014
Location: Preston-ish
Posts: 15

United Kingdom 

I think you can look at the 18 miles in two ways. You can decide it’s feeble or you can plan to use it as much as possible. If you can charge every night, and do at least 18 miles a day, then you can do around 6,500 electric miles a year. If you are home based and can charge during the day (or have a charger at home) then you might manage that twice a day. So not impossible to foresee covering 10,000 plus electric miles a year. In theory anyway. I am more likely to get a Jag iPace next - but would rather have an electric Land or Range Rover. I have been told jaguar are doing full electric and Land Rover phev’s which is a shame

Post #483300 12th Jul 2018 5:54pm
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Gt3gooner



Member Since: 17 Jan 2018
Location: Oxon
Posts: 7

United Kingdom 

Squares with my logic, 90 mile daily round trip with twice a day charging for c.40 ‘free’ miles. Coming out of 330d which manages a real world 42mpg so ev miles, big BiK advantage over either straight petrol or diesel and its FFRR, what’s not to like??

Post #483321 12th Jul 2018 8:18pm
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ilard



Member Since: 21 Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 58

United Kingdom 

Unnecessary quote removed

I know these new diesels are superbly powerful and economical... and complex with it. The whole sad blue thing.. gah. And the political anti-diesel mood across Europe is troubling, not to mention the word DIE in diesel. It maybe too late to rename the fuel livesel, but it's all depressing the mood!

A 3.0 livesel would otherwise suit me nicely and be £7k cheaper or so, but I would never feel as good and I think the ownership experience is worth the extra cash. It's a very personal thing. It's actually a very wife thing - would you rather an L405 PHEV or a Prius?

You're bang-on regards emissions - but it's so much more than raw numbers, it's also about perception which is why I chucked in the lifestyle phrase. Diesel remains a redline for my little family.

The L405 PHEV is a bit of a silly compromise. I mean, no spare wheel, reduced boot space, limited EV range, ridiculously heavy. So I am half contemplating delaying my purchase for the next gen fatty due in 2021 in the hope the first PHEVs improve on all these points. I'm just not sure I can stomach a). the loooong wait, b). risk of PHEV spilling into 2022 or 2023!, and c). the likely 10% to 20% price hike.

Post #483332 12th Jul 2018 10:00pm
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex
Posts: 241

United Kingdom 

Dear Ilard

There is NOTHING worse than be swayed by people wi th agendas intent on misleading. When the global warming war of words was in full swing, a top well respected scientist/protagonist said...I have to exaggerate my figures to make people pay attention. I can’t forget that phrase.


I posted this elsewhere on the forum -


https://mailchi.mp/emissionsanalytics/disc...5ffcb77200
Diesel emissions ( virtually ???) matches petrol!


I asked my dealer if they are offering 2019 FFRR 4.4L diesel, and he said yes he’s , just placing the orders... those engines must be compliant with real driving euro 6, that means they are as clean as anything else. My engine is euro 6 pre sept2018 and I am happy to defend having that one.


I don’t understand why the car manufacturing industry isn’t aggressively defending diesel... perhaps they just want to sell new ones! JLR are very quiet.

The co2 issue is swiftly forgotten.

Diesel has been described as the devils fuel on this forum , Yes, the old ones, shipping, old buses, heavy lorries, but the new clean engines will be better and less harmful. I’m sure electric will have people attack them as heavy fuel or forests drive the power stations. Many new ones and pylons have to be built. See national grid statement this week.

I bought my last car a year ago, well aware of the issues, but in my mind was my next car, say in five years time will be electric and a joy..... but until then clean (er) diesel.

Good luck in your choices.....as for Mrs Ilard, a bit like Mrs Bill and large tankers, hard to change direction Rolling with laughter






.. He who dies with the most toys, Wins !!!!!

Post #483356 13th Jul 2018 11:26am
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Trommel



Member Since: 05 Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1835

Problem is that whilst diesel can be made clean, it’s much more expensive and complicated to do so - hence why Volvo have ditched it. The number of DPF posts on here should tell you something.

Post #483361 13th Jul 2018 12:02pm
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex
Posts: 241

United Kingdom 

Volvo dumping DPF may be something to do with Chinese ownership and their drive to electric.

I’m not saying electric is wrong, i’m not willing to say diesel has had its day. The enormous effort being put into cleaning up is showing good results .

As an aside here is the comparison for euro 6 petrol and diesel v euro 5

IMHO The muck in London is due to congestion, old engines running going nowhere.Much of which is brought about by twenty years of anti car politics . MR L changing the timing of traffic lights to cause congestion didn’t help.


Click image to enlarge
 He who dies with the most toys, Wins !!!!!

Post #483364 13th Jul 2018 12:25pm
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Trommel



Member Since: 05 Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1835

No question that private cars, diesel or otherwise, are not the problem in London. They’re just an easy target for political point-scoring.

Re Volvo - “We’re not saying diesel is more dirty, but it’s more complicated and more expensive“:

https://www.ft.com/content/6bf0ce8a-5786-11e8-b8b2-d6ceb45fa9d0

Post #483368 13th Jul 2018 12:57pm
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Trommel



Member Since: 05 Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1835

Also, re Euro 6 figures - the panic over WLTP has shown that there’s more to it than meeting headline numbers.

Post #483369 13th Jul 2018 12:59pm
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex
Posts: 241

United Kingdom 

WLTP another acronym I had to look up





http://wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/


Big Cry

I surrender !!!!! He who dies with the most toys, Wins !!!!!

Post #483372 13th Jul 2018 1:31pm
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