If I'd known that I'd be moving out of the Fatty for an unknown period and into a varied series of JLR loaners, I'd have started this from the beginning - so my apologies for that.

Here's my current one:

Click image to enlarge

What's wrong with your FF?

A problem with engine electricals that’s effectively immobilised the engine.

Day 31:

I'm still in the Jaguar and have been for a week now. It's very low slung, with very low bodywork, oversized wheels and very silly 35 profile tyres. I've been asking for something more appropriate since Thursday of last week, but to no avail.

I left a message to tell my "Solution Executive" that, as part of my work, I shall need to take it off road early next week Just like I originally bought a Range Rover to do!!

Last edited by Red Merle on 23rd Sep 2018 8:19am. Edited 1 time in total

I'd just love to see the look on the face of the Solutions Exec when you return the XF estate after a jaunt off road

I can't believe that LR didn't get you into a near equivalent FFRR within a couple of days.

I'm a fan of fast estates as road cars. It's been over 10 years since I sold my Audi RS2 but I miss her as she's definitely been my car of a lifetime to date. She was a fabulous car to drive. But her road-biased quattro couldn't cope with offroading like LR products can!

It's great to have such happy memories of a car like the RS2. I'll always have a soft spot for my old R53 Cooper S and the Citroen XM's of old

Yep, love to see the XF up to its headlights in mud

Day 31 (continued):

I was given a choice today; either stick in the XF until the 1st of October and then have either an RRS or FF, depending on what's been freed up from other poor sods like me, or have a Velar on Monday or Tuesday and then I'm stuck with it. I like the looks of the Velar, but it's waayyy too small for my needs and I don't want one for what may be several months yet. so, I've elected to wait for the 1st and ride it out in the Jag.

I had an entire month when by last D4 took root in the garage and had no such problems then. Quality cars (proper D4's and RRS's) were available instantly, were brought to you (no nonsense about having to take a 60 mile taxi ride to the nearest dealer 24 hours after the event). Either they don't carry the stock, or demand is off the scale. I'd like to know which.

Last edited by Red Merle on 23rd Sep 2018 8:18am. Edited 2 times in total

I did a driver training gday at Bruntingthorpe with a guy in an RS2. They were trying to demonstrate lift off oversteer and power understeer. My 993 demonstrated it very well,but they just could not get the RS2 to do either. What a cracking car it was.

I had a nogaro blue b5 RS4 for over 10 years which I sometimes regret selling too. It could manage a bit of off road of you turned the TC off, but had crap ground clearance.
My mate has just bought a new RS4, and although it's a great car it's not got the same character as the B5.

I think it will be a sad day when I part with my L322 too. If I had a big barn and could just keep them all I would  Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

Hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread @Red Merle. If you do I'll delete the post. @John w - like your choice of cars. 10 years with an RS4 - I'm jealous.

I bought a slightly used RS2 in 2003 (121k on the clock). She was sold as a a former Audi car but I didn't realise till after I bought her that she was one of the Audi press cars! I reluctantly sold her 5 years later.

She was amazing but as with any performance car the maintenance bills were eye watering. I used her as my daily driver but being an unusual beast she spent periods of time off the road for fault finding or waiting for parts on back order (like an exhaust manifold). So we ended up buying a new diesel hatchback to ensure we always had at least two cars on the road.

The awesome RS2

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&...6069505150

The only car I regret selling and I'd have her back in a heartbeat if I could find somewhere to keep her. Hmm - she's SORN-ed currently with no MOT since June 2016.

I miss my Discovery 4 too but at least I can say I've owned one. Bought her when I thought we were staying in the last house but we decided to move to be mortgage free once more and we weren't making enough use of her as him indoors preferred using his car to car share going to and fro work. So decided to sell her and buy a small car outright (funnily enough a 2017 MINI Cooper S).

But I'm hankering after a Land Rover product back in my life - despite the problems people are having. Maybe an L322 FFRR?

Sorry to continue this off thread, move this to another if needs be.

Cobstar, I have a similar picture somewhere of my car cresting a rise on the ring
Funnily enough i bought my RS4 in December 2003 too, it was just on 3 years old. It took a while to find the car I wanted. It was nogaro blue with light interior, 26k miles, and like new. It had 68k miles on it when I sold it, and aside from a replacement gearbox under warranty as it whined slightly in 2nd, the car was faultless.
I bought the 993 in 1998. I Sold both of them in 2014 as our car count was apparently too high
The 993 was great but I don't miss it like the RS4 (possibly because I still have a 997 turbo) Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

Thanks for thinking of it chaps, but I'm happy to read about something other than my battles with LR at the moment. I could use the distraction!

Back on topic for a minute, I've just seen the boot of a RRS open and I'd forgotten just how small the boot is. I've had to leave a message for my "Solution Executive" to say that the RRS will be a problem and it's either going to have to be a Full Fat or, if it's unavoidable, one of Jerri's ugly new Discoveries; it might be absolutely hideous, but at least there's the option of a proper engine, a big(ish) boot and real off road capability hidden underneath that Townie suit

Fab car history @John w! We looked at 993s around the time we had the RS2. Wouldn’t be able to afford a 993 now as the prices have escalated. Some of the prices for RS2s seem quite astounding for high mileage cars. Looked at 968s too - as did consider replacing the RS2 with one.

@Red Merle have to say I was very taken by the new RRS on an LRE day at Rockingham. But don’t have the same requirements for space that you do. Is the new Discovery as spacious in the boot as the D4? The new Discovery doesn’t have the presence of its predecessors and the weird rear styling and offset number plate does my head in.

Hopefully LR will get you in a FFRR next week.

The boot in the Disco 5 is easily the biggest of the current Land Rover range, although it's a pale immitation of the Disco 4's.

Having lots of experience of using all 3 of them, the boot floors are all very similar in size, but the vast internal height of the Disco 4 is missing from the 5, while the D pillars and roof underside produce a curved opening, akin to a cartoon cave entrance, rather than a nice square and Transit like opening. Consequently, it's a fair bit smaller and what space there is is less usable. The floor is also much higher off the ground than even the Full Fat and especially the Disco 4. The "electric plank" alternative to the drop down tailgate is completely hopeless.

It's still a useful boot though, but if the Full Fat's boot scored 5 and the Disco 4's scored 10, the Disco 5 would score 7 for space and 4 for practicality. However, with a trailer for the serious stuff, the D5 would haul what I want it to

Still hoping for a proper Full Fat. It would certainly help make Mrs RM and daughter RM much happier

@Red Merle just been browsing a Velar Forum outside Martin's empire. Quite a lot of Velars sitting with dealers for significant periods of time waiting various fixes or for LR CS and the dealer to agree the way forward. It seems that many have had a loan car and negotiated additional compensation for the inconvenience associated with their own car being off the road.

I wish LR hadn't replaced the D4 - I just love the shape and the look. Now if they'd put a petrol engine in that, I'd probably have bought that instead of the diesel and she would still be on my drive!

If I was being selfish I'd like to see you in a Velar for a week before LR give you a loan FFRR to get your trusted opinion on the Veloar as a possible way for me to get back into an LR product in the future. I was toying with the idea of a 4.2 SC L322 but remembering my RS2 reminded me of the problems of maintaining an older vehicle unless you have a trusted mechanic.

@Martin you really need to set up a Velar Forum as part of your LR Forum empire

@cobstar - I am also on the Velar forum (Wolfie) as after problems with my FF I ended up with a Velar.

Realistically I don’t think the Velar would be a way to persuade you back into the LR product family. As you saw on the Velar forum, there are loads of people with problem cars, proportionately probably similar to the FF numbers. But again it’s the poor response from dealers (as a rule) and JLR themselves that seems to be the real problem.

The Velar is a nice enough car but it’s no FF . It’s smaller size does make it easier to drive on narrow moorland roads, and to park in town. It handles better but is stiffer than a FF. It lacks the sense of occasion you get in the FF.

I’ve been lucky with my Velar in so far as there are no issues I can’t live with - but it’s not perfect. Thee seems to be no rhyme nor reason as to why some cars are relatively good and others complete nightmares.

So if you don’t buy a FF because of potential issues, you’d be no better off on a Velar other than saving some cash...

I’m still running V3 software - currently up to V5 - but as largely the software works I’m reluctant to let the dealers update things as each version update seems to cure one thing but cause another problem.

After a number of Land Rovers of different types over the years there’s no doubt that the Velar is the final car I’ll have of theirs, it’s too stressful literally waiting for something to go seriously wrong. It’s kind of an expectation that it will at some point, rather than an completely unforeseen event.

Currently I plan to keep it until the PCP term is up (2 1/2 years left), but if it disgraces itself it’ll be disposed of immediately even if it costs me money.

Interestingly if the D4 shape had still been available then I’d have gone for one of those and not a Velar. The D5 is just too fugly and has lost so much practicality over the D4 that it wasn’t even on my radar.

@redmerle - I hope everything works out for you.

@Fat Wolfie thank you for the feedback
Glad you have a well behaved Velar.
So what would you replace your Velar with?