With the auto gearbox fitted to the TD6 giving so many problems I wonder if anyone has given serious thought to replacing it with a 5 or 6 speed manual? possibly a BMW 530 or 535 manual gearbox should do and would just need mating up to the transfer box.

I'm interested in any thoughts on this as i'm taking part in a planned trip to drive to Guinnea Bissau in 2014 and fancy a bit of comfort.....lol I have a TD5 auto at the moment but think driving nearly 8k would be nicer in a ffrr.

Alan

No. The problems with the TD6 box is caused by a soft metal that was used on one of the components.

When the box fails, you can have it rebuilt with stronger metal that should last the life of the vehicle (As far as I know)

Well they did a BMW X5 manual, so it could be possible.

Pop on over to

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/l322-range-rover/

And spend an evening perusing the site. There is a thread about this somewhere.

Adrian VW Amarok 2014 Highline auto

I really don't understand why people would want to drive a manual. It is annoying to be "stirring the fuel" to start with. The automatic actually "protects" the drivetrain and engine from harsh gear changes and makes all components last longer due to "softer" shifts and substantially less risk of over revving. Clutches of manuals aren't the nicest to change either and they fail as well.

I know there is a group of people that thinks manuals are better offroad but there is also a group that says automatics are the way to go offroad (especially on a FFRR I would say). I personally think an automatic is much better offroad as there is no fiddling with the clutch and parking brake.

Granted with the bad reputation of the GL gearbox (that is incidentally found in many other cars) I would be worried but I would suggest to invest in the Sonax valve block etc. rather than trying to get a manual gearbox in. Get a good recondition box in or have yours done properly (if it hasn't been done already).

I would also make sure the gearbox oil and filter are brand new and most importantly your cooling is in perfect shape !!! I would invest in a brand new radiator, fan, pump and oil cooler as well as some underbody protection if you expect to be running some bad "roads". Also the suspension, steering and brakes should get some TLC (suspension airbags !!!). Maybe it is also worth to change all the diff oil. And while you are at it, check all the rubbers/gaiters etc.

Have a look at the Africa section, describing RRGs trip London to Cape Town and the preparations they did on their TD6. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Just for info, the cheapest I found a gearbox with the Sonnax valve block upgrade and Sonnax oil pump was £1495 + VAT, with a £500 surcharge on exchange of your old unit..........

Got to be easier than a manual conversion......... 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Thanks for the replies everyone, some good points there I just don't fancy being stranded 1000's of miles away with a broken auto box most other things can be fixed with a little latteral thinking but a broken auto box in the jungle is another thing I didn't know about the BMW X5 manual so might have a look at that as a possible way to go

wouldn't you be better of with a d3/4 as they seem to be made for that kind of work you're contemplating.. ... - .- -.




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Not much difference from a reliability standpoint between the L322 or the D3/4 actually, Stan. At least not in what would affect reliability in an off road/expedition sense. And besides all of that, what got me hooked on the RR in the first place is its comfort. We travel off road with our vehicles - but we travel long stretches on road in between. I originally thought I was going to be purchasing a Mercedes G (I was especially put off by Brit auto electrics - round of Lucas jokes anyone?) - till I drove Pop-in-laws RR to the South of France and went beach driving/playing for a bit. What a revelation! You drive on road like you are in a luxury car and don't give up any off road ability. Hooked.

G4, I would not bother with the additional expense and headache. If I were to go through additional expense on the transmission, I would concentrate on having a reliable 5L40E built - and there are numerous things that can be done. The single biggest source of trouble in the 5L40E is a lack of adequate control pressure. As mrd mentioned, one of the biggest problems in the GM box is that the alloy used in the valve body is softer than in other GM transmissions of similar construction. The valve bores wear and the valves no longer hold adequate pressure. There is a company called Sonnax who make a sleeve kit for the valve body (do a search - been posted numerous times). Have this mod done and have a new pump cover installed on rebuild and your chance of having the transmission break on you in the next 100kmiles (if not considerably more) are as small or great as any other major component on the car. And if worst does come to worst - I've read plenty of stories of transmissions, motors or other major car bits being shipped to somewhere in Africa to get an overlander going again. We (thankfully) do not live in the age of Dr. Livingstone anymore.

We would like to do something similar in the not too distant future (next couple of years...): we want to take our TD6 to Tanzania - poss further. There is also a trip report by board member RRG as ebajema mentioned above.

And you'll want to look into an IIDTool (shameless self-plug ). This is why we built it. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

You may run into all kinds of electronics issues as well when you remove the autobox and replace it with a manual. The box and engine are working together electronically and I am pretty sure there are other links with HDC/DSC/ABS etc. So removing the autobox may also give you a host of electronic issues and non functionality of certain components. Better talk to someone who knows a bit more about how the electronics work. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Ok, I'll chime in here with some positive ideas about this. Yes I have thought about doing this, and I've done a lot of research. I have a thread running on AULRO on this that has been mentioned previously. Here's what I've come up with so far...

Gearbox - the 5 or later 6 speeds from the X5 will bolt up to the engine. The NV225 transfer case may bolt up to these boxes, but I have no measurements between the NV225 and the NV125 that is used on the BMW, so there is some more work required there. There have been some photos posted of them sitting side by side, and they look similar, but still an unknown. The output shaft differences between the GM auto and the manual are also unknown to me at this stage.

Assume for a minute that this can be made to work and you need to know the gearbox lengths, so you can determine if new driveshafts will be needed, but no big deal if they do, there are plenty out there that can do this.

Clutch - as the RR was never intended to have a clutch pedal, then this will need to be sorted. I have had a close look at the firewall, and I believe an aftermarket clutch pedal and reservoir that mounts inside on the pedal box would fit. This would then only need a hydraulic line running to the box. Forget about using the standard clutch fork from the BMW - it mounts on the wrong side and will foul the RR exhaust which comes back a lot further than on the X5. A hydraulic concentric throw out bearing would be needed, and these are readily available in all sorts of sizes.

Shifter - could be a lot of work, as I have no idea what they look like on the manual, but again, with a bit of hard graft something could be fabricated to make the shifter sit in the right spot. The lockouts and the whole shifter assembly would need to be removed and the floor would need to be modified to suit.

Electronics - maybe not the killer that you may think. The box is linked to several other ecu's but the signals are mostly to do with when the box shifts - it sends a signal to the engine to modify its output for a fraction of a second under full load when the box shifts. I have played with this a bit and found the engine can be made to start and run without issues or faults with the transmission ecu unplugged, so I think this is doable. Worst case scenario is to rip the ecu out of the trannie and leave it plugged into the loom - the car will think it is in neutral all the time - this doesn't effect the engine output.

So, in the end, I personally think it could be done, but the work required would be huge. If you had to pay someone to do all this, then forget it. I can do all the fabrication and work myself, so it could be viable. You will find a lot of people will tell you it can't be done, but if you have the time, skills and most importantly - money, then I think it could be.

I think eventually someone will have a crack at this (hopefully me) and we will see what comes of it. As I've had my trannie rebuilt recently, I should have a few years to plan this properly, but if it fails before I'm really ready to start, then I'll still have a crack anyway - I'm not going down the rebuild path twice...

Cheers - Gav

Oh, and on the auto versus manual debate - that is just personal preference. I prefer a manual as a daily driver - I do a lot of KM every year, mostly in the city, and I would go back to a manual in a flash if I could. I drove a transit van around Melbourne for nearly 10 years and never thought about wanting an auto, but now I drive an auto everyday, I yearn to get back in a manual...

Off road, the auto probably is better - the L322 off road is awesome so if you are looking at doing it to improve its off road capabilities, then I wouldn't bother, it will probably be a backward step in that regard, but I don't take my FFRR off road much - I have an 86 Classic that is my bush pig.

Cheers - Gav

g4mudman,

while an interesting idea, trying to convert an L322 to manual is utterly crazy, and totally unnecessary. The Td6 gearbox has very well known weakneses. The simple remedy would be to have your gearbox overhauled before your trip. This is exactly what I did on my (80k mile) Td6 before embarking on an 18k mile adventure from London to Cape Town and I had no problems whatsoever.

You can read about my vehicle preparation here:
http://www.lilongwedown.com/LilongweDown/Vehicle.html

And anyway, Guinea Bissau isn't that far away! Service the car thoroughly, put on some Goodyear MTRs and you'll be fine.

I'm mulling driving to Marrakesh for Xmas...

This is a very interesting thread, and something i have thought about myself. i believe it can be done, but as mentioned above would require a huge amount of fabrication and programming work.

I think it would be a better move to sonnax valve the thing and add a "bulit proof level 10" tc and a decent oil pump.

Has anyone thought about reprogramming the TCM, or is it just me that thinks it could do with upshifting ALOT lower and locking at 30mph? mine locks at 35ish and upshifts at around 2500 (obviously depending on work load) and it would be nice to lock it in 5th at around 50mph.

Sorry to hijack the thread abit.

Hi Gav - definitely! You can do anything w/enough time and money. Don't need to go into a debate on auto vs. manual here but I will say I used to think exactly like you on autos. Not anymore - might be age. And I consider an auto to be much superior to a manual in 98% of all off road situations. I would not want an auto - tiptronic or PDK - in my Porsches, though. And for the TD6 I would concentrate on building a better auto box - less expensive, quicker, and probably just as reliable (if not more so) in the long run than a one-off mix of parts and fabbed bits.

Give us a shout if you do go through with it and need help with the electronics, tho.


Barracuda - there is a guy in Germany who has reprogrammed the ECU in exactly the manner you describe. He originally did this for BMWs, but he also posted on a German RR board soliciting his SW. I'll see if I can dig up his info for you. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)