Hi guys,

I wonder if you can hel, I own a 07 TDV8 3.6 Vogue. A few weeks ago on the way back from France as I pulled up to the peage, the STOP ENGINE low oil pressure warning flicked on, followed by the smell of burning oil and a cloud of oil smoke from the left hand side of the engine. befoe I could react, the engine stalled and would not restart. To cut a long story short, the dealer I bought the vehicle from sold us an RAC Warranty with the vehicle. The RAC Warranty (actually the Warranty Group) sent an engineer out to insect the engine which had been partially stripped by the dealer's pet garage. The engineer's verdict is that the head gasket has failed, leading to overheating. The engine needs replacement but the damage caused was due to driver abuse as I 'drove on' with a failed head gasket. Therefore they won't pay for a new engine. Just to add insult to injury the engineer has stated that the fault wasn't present at time of purchase therefore hampering our claim against the dealer under the sales of goods act.

The problem I have with their accusation is that the only warning I recieved was a check cooland message about 1 minute before I pulled up at the peage, the temperature guage stayed in the middle all the time and no indication was received until the low oil pressure and stalled engine occurred. I've had a few range rovers in the past (all petrol) and as a seasoned Range Rover owner I would have pulled over immediately has I had any indication.

Sorry about the long post, thought I'd better give some background, the questions I have are:

Does anyone know the location of the water temperature sensor, is it possible to recieve a false indication even though the vehicle was overheating?

What other warning's should I have received? Would the vehicle suffer a loss of power or go into 'limp' mode if the water temperature threshold is exceeded?

I'm thinking of getting a second 'expert' opinion as I suspect that the head gasket was a symptom rather than cause, a range rover specialist has advised that head gasket's are not a problem on the TDV8, does anyone have any similar experience?

Woudl appreciate any advise or help, currently looking at an £8K repair bill and the dealer / warranty company are refusing to take any further responsibility.

Many thanks

Steve

Sorry to here of your problems.

I think you should take your claim further. Unless they can prove you drove the car with the blown gasket, which from what you described did not happen then it is entirely possible for the head gasket to fail and subsequently cause damage to the engine without you intentionally driving it.

Seems to me the dealer and the warranty company both need to get there act together. I am not a legal expert but just your brief description sounds like you have a very strong case. Both the warranty company and the dealer you bought the car from are trying to wriggle out of there responsibility.

The other problem is if your head gasket was leaking before it blew then you could of leaked water into the oil paths and had water contaminated oil circulating around your engine without your knowledge while you drove. This might explain the low coolant warning but again for this to have come on there could have already been a fair quantity of water pumped into your engine already. So you could have driven miles without any knowledge of this until the catastrophic failure occurred.

I am sure any independent mechanic would have a different opinion to the failure description then that of the warranty company. I wish I knew more about the legal side but you really do have a very strong case against the dealer or the warranty company. If I were you I would speak to the dealer and advice them it is in their best interest to make the warranty company fix this as if not you will pursue them as they sold you both the car and the warranty.

Thanks for your reply, shoudl also mention that we've had trouble from day 1 really. A week after picking the RR up, the check engine light came on, turned out to be a fault with the EGR valve and also an injector. 2 weeks after that the air con blew a hose! So in the 3 months of owning the car, I've had about 5 weeks use of it!!

So did they replace the EGR valve under warranty?

Sounds to me with the history of the car and the problems you have mentioned that your case is even stronger. Do you have any kind of legal solicitor cover with any household or car insurance policies. That might be a worthwhile avenue to pursue to save paying for a solicitor.

But I would send a letter to the dealer first giving him a chance to put things right, give them an ultimatum to agree to sort things or you will look to involve legal methods of recompense. Set the dealer a reasonable date to reply by and if you have no response or they refuse to fix the car then I would pursue the dealer through the courts for a full refund on the car.

But this is if you want the car repaired. To be honest if I was in your shoes then I would probably be looking to get a full refund and give the car back to them as it was clearly not fit for purpose.

Just playing the Devils Advocate here but the engine may have been fine at the date of purchase. Any number of related or unrelated things could have caused the Engine Failure. How far back to you go in the blame game?

Thankfully we are not quite into the immediate compensation claim society they have in the USA and from what I understand UK courts often find in favour of the Dealer if there is no clear evidence they were at fault at point of sale. Dealer may have taken care to source a good car and prepared it well we just do not have the evidence.

I think the warranty company are liable as this is the purpose of the contract they provided. You stopped immediately you became aware of the problem. PROVIDING you contacted them before authorising any work you want paid for you should be able to get them to pay. Otherwise Sue THEM if you going sue anybody.

WARNING: Always call the warranty company claim line IMMEDIATELY you have a problem that you might need to claim for.

Gary while I appreciate your side of things ie: selling cars. I think in this case only having 5 weeks use out of the car in 3 months of ownership and the fact the check engine light came on after only 1 week of ownership and diagnosed EGR valve replaced and injector etc and aircon hose blowing, this does not appear to be a car that's been well prepared and checked thoroughly before sale. You could argue that the warranty should cover some things but it certainly shouldn't cover pre-existing issues. In this case I suspect the car was bad from day one and it was only a matter of time before something else went wrong, and in this case it took out the engine completely.

In the case of XJR264's car the list of faults is just too many to be bad luck. I reckon this is a clear case of a car being sold that was not really fit for purpose, and I think the blame in this case would definitely be with the car dealer in question not the warranty company.

While I don't agree with the warranty company's engineers report regarding the failed head gasket and the accusation that further damage was done by deliberately driving the car thus causing further damage, I still feel that in this case the blame is down to the dealer selling a car that was unfit for sale and certainly not fit for purpose. I would find it highly unlikely that any judge would find in favour of the dealer if the history of faults XJR has described are presented to him. If it was just a head gasket failure on its own then sure its a warranty thing but with the list of problems here since ownership we are in a totally different ball park.

The list being an EGR Valve and a hose blowing.

Those two could happen to your car tonight how could the dealer of prevented these in advance?

I am not trying to defend the dealer but when a car is brought in the engine/car is not stripped to check every component.

Bad luck has its place too.

I rarely hear of Head Gaskets going on TDV8 but there is always one. All parties may or may not be at fault so let common sense prevail. If warranty companies accept liability without having the car thoroughly examined then that there choice of how to run their business.

If the policy was in force when the car broke down and the components are covered then it is their liability full stop. To suggest the head gasket was gone at point of sale is pure speculation and to me is part of compo culture. However If it was faulty and that can proved without doubt then the dealer deserves all he gets.

Blaming Dealers for every fault a car has post purchase can at times be just a little unfair.

It should also be noted that Dealers make a choice when selling cars:

1. Personally warrant the vehicle for a period and pay for any relevant claim

2. Buy an expensive warranty tfor a period o pay for relevant claims.

The Warranty Companies are in business to provide the contracts required under point 2. and believe me they actively pursue dealers to take their services and transfer potential liability to them.

They are not daft they make a lot of money I alone pay about £20000 a year in premiums and total claims I am aware of come to about £700 in the last year. Obviously they have pocketed £19k of my hard earned but we do it that way as customers prefer a "Proper " warranty.

Please DO NOT feel sorry for them when they have to pay a claim they are contracted to pay for they are very well funded to do so.

Hi xjr264, sorry to hear about your problems. PM sent.

Gary your list seems a bit short, the actual list as described by XJR is EGR valve, fuel injector, aircon hose, and most importantly the head gasket. That's a lot of bad luck. And don't forget the car was only available to him for 5 weeks out of over 12 weeks due to faults etc.

I have no problem with warranty claims and feel the company in question are trying to wriggle out of their responsibility for sure, and I have no sympathy for the warranty company. But in this case if I was the owner of the vehicle in question then I would not want the car fixed, its beyond that now, too many things have gone wrong in too short a space of time. This is now a case of handing the car back to the dealer and asking for your money back, which I doubt they will do willingly. This is why consumers have rights and if it goes to court I very much doubt the judge will think XJR is just unlucky here.

Put yourself in XJR's position, 5 weeks use out of over 12 weeks, various faults ending with a complete engine failure, would you want to continue ownership of this car even if a new engine is fitted. I for one would not and XJR is entitled to expect a car fit for purpose that he can use, clearly that's not what he has been sold here.

Ultimately XJR will need to decide if he wants to continue with this car in terms of getting it repaired, be it the dealer or warranty. But I do feel that your "Devils Advocate" approach is not going to help XJR in anyway, especially when you hint at him not having a case. Even if the dealer has serviced and inspected the car the consumer is entitled to expect some level of reliability that does not end in an engine failure in 3 months when the car spent 2 months of that at the garage.

We should be encouraging XJR to try to get this car returned to the dealer and a full refund given. Warranty repair would be second best by a long way.

XJR should get legal advice regarding this whole incident, only then can he make a true judgment on what to do. I for one am not a legal expert, but do know a bit about consumer rights. My heart goes out to XJR and hopefully we will all get behind him in encouraging him to pursue the best course of action for him, not the dealer and not the warranty company.

Don't get me wrong its not a straight case of blame. It is possible the dealer did check the car correctly and bad luck could play a part in this case. The dealer could have done nothing wrong, but the point is the consumer has rights and blame or no blame unless the faults can be proven to have been caused by the new owner through neglect etc, then the responsibility lies with the dealer.

Warranties can help to offset the risk of sudden catastrophic failure etc but in this case the amount of issues and time the car was unavailable to the new owner only make his case for returning the car for a full refund stronger.

I may be missing something here but I assume the other faults were put right & I agree the onus is on the warranty company. However I have never in 20 years of building engines including race engines ( mainly Japanese) heard of sudden headgasket failure wrecking an engine with out prior symptoms or the engine being driven on after it has started to overheat. A warning to all, temp gauges or warning lights are there for a reason. I do hope you can get some recourse through the warranty company but no dealer could for see headgasket failure unless it had already failed but you would have surely been back complaining of loss of coolant? do not get to despondent though you can get it replaced for a lot less than 8k you just need to trawl the internet. All the best though & hope you get it sorted. Worse things happen at sea! Well thats what swmbo said when WRENS came to sea!!!

No we should not be encouraging him to request a refund.

That's your personal opinion and I have not seen anybody backing you.

Dealers buy warranties to protect against mechanical failure of the cars they sell and do not having the 6th sense (yet)

I have noted your. and your friend(s), opinions from previous posts and I rarely agree with you.

Pleased do not use the Royal "We" without being sure YOUR opinion is in the majority.

Your world is going mad and will want compensation for loss of sleep due to forums next...

Martin beware

Last edited by Gazellio @ Prestige Cars on 8th Oct 2013 11:11pm. Edited 1 time in total

I agree with you gazzellio, A dealer sells a car in good faith using a reputable warranty company what more can be done? Worse things happen at sea! Well thats what swmbo said when WRENS came to sea!!!