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Zebedee



Member Since: 09 Jun 2016
Location: Cheshire/South Manchester
Posts: 354

United Kingdom 2013 Range Rover Vogue SDV8 Santorini Black
Some boring environmental facts about LPG

I'd always thought that while LPG is much cleaner than other fuels (especially diesel), I could never see how it was beneficial in terms of CO2 as I used about 20% more LPG than petrol to travel the same distance.

Someone has just pointed me to the Department of Energy & Climate Change website and their Conversion Factors for Greenhouse Gasses that show the kg CO2e (equivalent) per kWh for different fuels are:
LPG - 0.23041
Petrol - 0.24552
Diesel - 0.26161

Or in other words, even though I get through more of it, it gives out less CO2 for a given amount of energy. I just thought someone on this forum might find that vaguely interesting. Current:
- 2013 L405 4.4 TDV8 Vogue
Sold:
- 2004 L322 4.4 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 2002 L322 4.4 HSE (having fixed timing chain guides)
- 2000 P38 4.6 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 1981 2-door In-Vogue
- 1980 Ex-Army SIII LWB
- 1976 SIII LWB
- 1968 SIIA
Stripped for parts:
- 2003 L322 4.4 Vogue

Post #392361 20th Jun 2016 3:16pm
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Joe90



Member Since: 29 Apr 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 6397

England 

Similar calculation for humans is (I believe) @ 1.200000kg Co2e per kWh
(although I know it doesn't count as we are part of the carbon cycle!)

Not feeling so bad about my TD6 with its CO2 emissions being only 6% worse than petrol .
Experience is the only genuine knowledge, but as time passes, I have forgotten more than I can remember Wink
Volvo V70 P2 2006 2.4 Petrol 170bhp Estate SE
MG Midget Mk1 1962

Previous: L322 Range Rover TDV8 3.6 2008; L322 Range Rover TD6 3.0 2002; P38A Range Rover V8 1999

Post #392368 20th Jun 2016 4:29pm
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PaulTyrer



Member Since: 22 Jul 2013
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire
Posts: 1225

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Epsom Green

So if humans are roughly 5 times higher CO2 than petrol engines, surely the answer is to keep nice big meaty V8 petrol engines and get rid of humans?

Post #392369 20th Jun 2016 4:36pm
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Joe90



Member Since: 29 Apr 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 6397

England 

Yes, but you would have to stop eating and breathing too! Shocked .
Experience is the only genuine knowledge, but as time passes, I have forgotten more than I can remember Wink
Volvo V70 P2 2006 2.4 Petrol 170bhp Estate SE
MG Midget Mk1 1962

Previous: L322 Range Rover TDV8 3.6 2008; L322 Range Rover TD6 3.0 2002; P38A Range Rover V8 1999

Post #392437 20th Jun 2016 10:58pm
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RR2008HSE



Member Since: 06 Jan 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2932

Canada 2008 Range Rover HSE 4.4 V8 Java Black

The reason you use more LPG is due to the energy density, so it makes sense that less energy/litre would give less CO2/litre. Very interesting. Thx Thumbs Up

Post #392446 21st Jun 2016 12:32am
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Dolphinboy



Member Since: 07 Dec 2009
Location: Bristol
Posts: 3035

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Atacama Sand

That IS interesting to me zebedee! Thumbs Up

I am always explaining why my "gas guzzling V8" is more environmentally friendly than the 'eco' car being driven by the interlocutor. I even got asked by a renewable energy company guy how mine fared and he was very impressed when I told him.

With my Nitrogen Monoxide (or Dioxide??) emissions at nearly 0% on LPG, I can't for the life of me understand why the Govt and driving organisations aren't pushing LPG as the way ahead!? Given that Diesels are likely to receive a hefty tax rise soon due to their poor emissions and Petrol being equally under threat, Why isn't there more tax incentives to go LPG? I for one have no probs with my LPG other than lack of stations selling it!

Who do I need to write to get this redressed? Mr. Green

Post #392502 21st Jun 2016 10:31am
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Haylands



Member Since: 04 Mar 2014
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 7879

England 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

The calorific value of LPG is lower than petrol, however the octane is much higher, I've recently been playing with the ignition map in mine and got it running noticeably faster on LPG than petrol...

So... faster and better for the Polar Bears.... Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Post #392550 21st Jun 2016 6:58pm
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steptoe



Member Since: 23 Jul 2012
Location: london
Posts: 382

England 

Dolphinboy wrote:
That IS interesting to me zebedee! Thumbs Up

I am always explaining why my "gas guzzling V8" is more environmentally friendly than the 'eco' car being driven by the interlocutor. I even got asked by a renewable energy company guy how mine fared and he was very impressed when I told him.

With my Nitrogen Monoxide (or Dioxide??) emissions at nearly 0% on LPG, I can't for the life of me understand why the Govt and driving organisations aren't pushing LPG as the way ahead!? Given that Diesels are likely to receive a hefty tax rise soon due to their poor emissions and Petrol being equally under threat, Why isn't there more tax incentives to go LPG? I for one have no probs with my LPG other than lack of stations selling it!

Who do I need to write to get this redressed? Mr. Green


LPG vehicles used to be London congestion charge exempt.

That changed in 2012 when Boris made changes to the rules.

Post #392760 23rd Jun 2016 11:21am
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johnboyairey



Member Since: 11 Jan 2013
Location: surrey
Posts: 2022

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Orkney Grey

All good news, against the uninformed, 'bloke down the pub' type experts.
My MOT was this week, my CO was 0.01, and even less last year. And was only 3ppm hydrocarbons, where the limit is 1200. I think, that with londons pollution, always over EU targets, I'm actually driving round, purifying the air! Razz

And that's at 165k (original engine.)

Post #392765 23rd Jun 2016 11:46am
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mzplcg



Member Since: 26 May 2010
Location: Warwickshire. England. The Commonwealth.
Posts: 4029

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Corris Grey

I've had LPG cars and quite liked them. There are many environmental benefits to it but the main drawback for me was lack of factory installed systems. The bolt on aftermarket, dual fuel systems (certainly older ones) had plenty of issues and there simply aren't enough filling points around. Having to plan everything around knowing where to get fuel became tiresome TBH.

But, what I will say is that engine oil always stayed clean, increased low end torque, smoother power delivery, quieter engine. Great!

If the car makers offered it as a factory option, and I mean genuine factory rather than those aftermarket dual fuel things which Vauxhall, Volvo etc offered for a short while. If that were to happen I'd have another. No losing the spare wheel, no massive tank in the boot and none of the messing around. Just a car which is fuelled with LPG. That would be a winner.

Of course, that needs R&D and millions of miles of testing which is where the problem lies.

Post #392778 23rd Jun 2016 1:55pm
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RR2008HSE



Member Since: 06 Jan 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2932

Canada 2008 Range Rover HSE 4.4 V8 Java Black

Dolphinboy wrote:
That IS interesting to me zebedee! Thumbs Up

I am always explaining why my "gas guzzling V8" is more environmentally friendly than the 'eco' car being driven by the interlocutor. I even got asked by a renewable energy company guy how mine fared and he was very impressed when I told him.

With my Nitrogen Monoxide (or Dioxide??) emissions at nearly 0% on LPG, ... :


Quick Chemistry lesson: in during combustion, you get a whole bunch of compounds from the reaction of oxygen and nitrogen. (Some will even continue to which compounds later.) We usually just call then "nitrogen oxides" or NOx. The "x" being the variable. I'd be pleased that they're close to zero (the lower the better) and not worry about the exact details.

Post #393076 26th Jun 2016 1:51am
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