Unfortunately have to agree with other posters on here,certainly good cause for not paying garage as work and problems not correctly diagnosed by them.You may be able to get GF as a token of good will to offer a small contribution to repairs if lucky and you present your case that further damage may have been caused by their actions,however head to head confrontation i think will probably undoubtedly lead to them taking a firm stance against any responsibilty.
Sympathise with your predicament and good luck. Full fat 4.2 Sc
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To add, green flag, may demand the service history, to show that any oil intervals, we're not extended, and by main dealer etc.
It's difficult to go up against a large company, as they have the deepest pockets.
I do sympathise with the situation, and had it been recovered, you might have got some more miles, but unless you had got it home, and expertly investigated it, you might have not fully dismantled it, before running it up.
I just wonder, what was indeed in the strainer, when it first flagged up with the oil light.
Very unusual, to just block up. If it wasn't say, chain guides breaking up, (plastic particles drop to bottom of engine, with timing chain then starts rubbing on chain cover, showering aluminium into oil)....or some rogue foreign matter, set free by Unknown incident.
At the after party, (strip down) the result is easy to see, but I wonder what the initial reason was.
Who indeed did the last oil change, and what oil was used?
A secondhand engine for this model is around £1500.

CS wrote:

I suspect the cost of running the claim, especially if you are at risk of having to contribute to GF's costs if you lose, is likely to be prohibitively high in the context of the likely value of your car.

[quote="tymh"]The best bit is, GF shot themselves in the foot when they telephoned me to tell me it was a "no". I'd been honest, and said I had a tiny oil leak on the car (as one does!) so I had oil in the boot just in case. They said it shouldn't have been driven if there was an issue with the oil and/or oil pressure... isn't that EXACTLY what I'm telling them?? I've asked for a copy of the call which will be with me in the next week or two.
[quote]

I think what they are trying to say is that you shouldn't have driven the vehicle if there was a known oil leak or pressure problem, not what you want to her but that is what they are saying.

I had mine recovered in and when the to truck arrived the next morning (mine had dumped its coolant) my wife phoned me say that the driver was asking if he could drive the car onto his ramp. I spoke to him and told him not to as it had no coolant in it and that his company would be footing the bill for the repair/replacement if he did.

I don't think you will get anywhere with GF as the damage was already done, and chasing them through court etc...will only add stress to an already rubbish situation. Telling them you are not happy and asking them what they are oing to do about it is different but don;t think they are responsible for this.

Good luck  Alex

2018 Skoda Kodiaq vRS
2009 Caterham Supersport Race car
2007 M5 Touring
2005 Range Rover Vogue SE Supercharged
2004 SL55 AMG

Have you got legal cover on your insurance? I would talk to them.... and while as everyone has said the engine was fubar'd almost instantly.... there is no getting away from the fact that they told you to drive it to the services..... this is what has done the damage.... running an engine with no oil pressure wont do it any good, but it will survive if it's not done for more than a few seconds.... But running an engine with no oil pressure under load will destroy it, and you placed it under load when you were instructed to drive it to the services.

As a direct result of the instruction to drive it, the engine has been damaged beyond repair... And as such the person / organisation that issued the instruction is responsible.... After all your not a mechanic, that's why you employed GF to act on your behalf.... which they have failed to do so. And while I agree that trying a small claims court, might have results.... you might get the same outcome talking to the legal team of a large insurance company..... Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

I think you will find it doesn't matter what the mechanic told him, it's up to the OP to decide what to do, he wasn't forced to drive it, if he had said no then they would have had to do something else....

It will be in the small print, GF won't be liable...

As others have said, forget it and move on, it will just cost more pain and suffering..... Pete

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Sorry Bud but I don't agree with that, the recovery company will have indemnity insurance to cover things like that.... With the way that the world has gone all health and safety on us, I can confidently say that unless the recovery company got tymh to sign a waver that they can not be held responsible for any advise given and it is up to the owner to act on their discretion, the recovery company will be accountable...... how accountable would have to be determined by a court.... they are just trying to flanker their responsibility and not pay out.

Once tymh called Green Flag he handed the problem over to them, they had the duty of care and had been retained to act in tymh's best interests, which they failed to do.

"My oil warning light has come on, Help", at that point Green Flag accepted the job, and the safe recovery of the ffrr should have taken place, not "just drive it a couple of miles sir, don't worry about the red light it's nothing"

If you were to buy a hose and have a full survey done, and a week later your in a rush, you run out the slamming the door behind you, only to watch your house fall down cos it's got the worst case of termites in history.... what would you do... You'd take the prat that said it was all good to court for duff advise Different if tymh had called them and posed the question is it safe to drive?.... but he didn't, he asked for them to make it better and they destroyed the engine through the bad advice and actions there after.

Knowing what these recovery companies are like, they have sent a Herbert who can just about identify which end is which on a car, and who has had no formal training, other than how to sign his name, and who obviously doesn't know even the basics of the correct operation of an engine..... great if you've run out of fuel or got a flat, no so good if there is a mechanical failure

Green Flag sub out most of their work to third party garages, and as such can't guaranty the level of training of the operatives that they are relying on to represent them, they are liable and wriggling as well.

What would you do if you phoned up Green Flag saying I've locked my keys in the car..... and they send out Sid Snot with his handy brick, and he throws it through the window..... the car is open.... and you now have a massive repair bill for a broken window and anything else that the brick hit.... would you think that was a reasonable service? Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

The light was already on and had been driven with it flickering after topping it up. Damage already done. GF made it worse but then the OP drove the car after topping up with oil. GF are correct in that the car shouldn't be driven with an oil leak or a pressure problem and that includes the owner of the car and their operative.

Sadly I don't see the OP getting anything from GF and if it went to court it would be very drawn out, stressful and costly.

Best bet is to draw a line under it, imo, and move on from trying to hold GF responsible. Alex

2018 Skoda Kodiaq vRS
2009 Caterham Supersport Race car
2007 M5 Touring
2005 Range Rover Vogue SE Supercharged
2004 SL55 AMG

I agree that it is best to forget chasing GF.

To prove in Court that GF is responsible one has to be able to prove that the engine was OK prior to their involvement. But that will be difficult because something caused the oil pressure light to come on. It was not the oil pump so maybe it was the blocked strainer. Blocked with bits of bearing or whatever.

The chances of proving that on the balance of probabilities GF caused the problem are, to my mind very poor.

Not what the OP wants to hear but that is my view.

tymh wrote:

Early March, we were driving back up the M6 late one Saturday. About a mile and a half south of the "Tickled Trout" junction my oil warning light sprang to life. I pulled in immediately and, being a RR, I had oil in the boot. Not checking the level (as it was late, cold and dark) I put some in, and restarted. Lights still on. I then got my torch out and dipped to find the oil level was fine, so I called Green Flag.

At no point does tymh say that he drove the car with the oil light on, or flickering, before Green Flag arrived.......... if the oil light comes on and you put your foot down the engine will be damaged. If you stop and turn the engine off immediately the light comes on there is little chance of doing any major damage, an engine will run for a few seconds, longer in some cases, with no oil pressure and live to tell the tail....... Otherwise why bother fitting a bloody warning light, if when it comes on the game is over ? Ignoring the warning light and carrying on as normal will end in tears.

look


So tymh did the right thing, as the light came on, he stopped the engine and investigated, briefly starting the engine to see if the problem was sorted, it wasn't so he turned it OFF, At no point did he say I filled it up and went for a quick thrash up the motorway to see if it would clear......

What you lot are saying is it's tymh's fault because he called Green Flag and listened to them..... I don't agree with that, they laughingly call themselves a breakdown organisation, and as such should be expected to provide sound advise and a professional service that their members have paid for, which they clearly did not in this case...... I reckon that is the sort of thing that Watchdog would love to get their teeth in to  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

I dont think we are really arguing whether the advice/actions were right or wrong. Probably all were wrongly given BUT its whether it is worth the pain and hassle to take them to court when as already established above, its a highly contentious point.

SO.... you're right but dont take to court unless you want so much hassle that when you win you wont feel like you have

Last edited by Rosco on 16th Apr 2016 9:25pm. Edited 1 time in total

Angela Rippon Rip Off Britain or watchdog@bbc.co.uk Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

miggit wrote:

Rosco wrote:

I dont think we are really arguing whether the advice/actions were right or wrong. Probably all were wrongly given BUT its whether it is worth the pain and hassle to take them to court when as already established above, its a highly contentious point.

SO.... you're right but dont take to court unless you want so much hassle that when you win you wont feel like you have

Well, a win is a win... and even more so if it was difficult.

I've written to AVRO and will see if/what they can get out of GF.

I've also got a copy of the call recording from GF in which they say “when it comes to an oil issue with a […] Range Rover, you really have to be careful with that […] really the car shouldn’t have been driven”

I know they were referring "my" issue, but a slight oil drip (which is all mine is... sorry... WAS) is not significant. I would expect them to follow their own advice, especially as it came from their senior engineers...  Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
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If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

All I'm trying to point out is you can run an engine with no oil pressure, for a very short amount of time, without suffering major damage...... Otherwise every time you did an oil change the engine would destroy itself on re starting..... there are a few seconds (10-30) where there is no oil pressure as the system re-primes itself and starts to flow again..... it is impossible not to have this situation happen during the course of an oil change.... as the oil is available to the engine, and it starts to recirculate within a few seconds no damage is done....

And although your situation happened while driving, from what you have described the time scale is not really any different to a service situation. Light on stop! check re-start, light on stop engine, call Green Flag..... If you stop the engine the instant the light came on, give or take a few seconds, then there shouldn't have been any major damage.... However if you sat at the side of the road revving the nuts off it to see if the light would go out.... that is game over

Once you called Green Flag and they took the job on, they had entered in to an agreement to repair or recover your car, not damage the engine beyond economical repair, which they did.... I would say that there is a case to answer there, but it could involve some heavy weight legal input.... as I have said I think that you'll find if you have legal cover on your car insurance that they might be willing to help, and then there is the bad press.... No major organisation is going to want something like that aired to the public, as it would not do their reputation any good..... Maybe the RAC / AA legal teams might want to help  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!