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bozmandb9



Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

Well I think I'm just going to do it!

From what I've heard if the LPG all goes horribly wrong, I'll need new hardened heads from JE, probably after 30-50k miles. this would cost maybe £3,000. In that time I'll have saved £4,000-£7,000 in fuel costs, IF I still have the car. The conversion costs around £1,550 plus VAT, this will be recovered within one year. One year warranty on the car, two years on the LPG conversion.

I think it's a no brainer, as fellow LPG owners will confirm, there's nothing like being able to enjoy a fantastic powerful engine whilst knowing that you're paying half(ish) price for the fuel! Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

Post #50070 13th Feb 2011 7:43pm
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Ludzy



Member Since: 27 Oct 2010
Location: Leicester
Posts: 191

United Kingdom 2005 Range Rover Vogue SE Supercharged Zambezi Silver

It's not the hardened heads and valves that bother me it the engine light problem and the possible niggles that may happen and possible loss of power. You never here about a good conversion just the bad.

Good look to ya mate and please keep us informed as rather than risk mine I'm just gonna get a second car that the wife will use so the range is only for me at weekends! Hopefully once or if a conversion has been perfected I can sell the second car and still have money left to get the conversion.

Cheers

Post #50082 13th Feb 2011 9:08pm
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GolfLima



Member Since: 20 Oct 2010
Location: South Bucks
Posts: 18

United Kingdom 2006 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Epsom Green

Bozmandb9,

I'm sure there are many excellent LPG conversions out there - however, having experienced LPG conversion on a previous 4Litre off-roader I had, I certainly wouldn't let a converter anywhere near my beloved Range Rover! All I'm saying is think really hard and do lots and lots of due diligence before taking the plunge. On my old vehicle (a Ford Explorer) I had a never ending chain of problems with the car after conversion, even when running on petrol. Prior to the conversion the car ran sweet as a nut and was a pleasure to drive, after conversion (which was a "premier" job costing nearly £3000) the car never ran well again, often stalling at innapropriate times (a nightmare in an automatic!) and sufferring loss of power and horrible gas smells. The theory sounded great, but in practice the whole thing was a nightmare that led to me having to sell the car - something I otherwise wouldn't have done as I loved the ol' wagon.

Just be careful!

Post #50652 17th Feb 2011 6:19pm
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sharpm



Member Since: 08 Nov 2010
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 33

Scotland 2006 Range Rover Vogue SE Supercharged Stornoway Grey

If I'm following this thread correctly the OP is getting a gas conversion on an SC for £1500 ish

I'm on my second SC and did enquire about the gas conversion a couple of years ago and for a decent one it was £3k to £4k - so I'd be a bit worried about somebody doing it for half that now

My personal opinion is leave well alone as you may well ruin a good car and I doubt that it will make it any easier to sell on when the time comes just enjoy it as it is - even with AT tyres fitted I get 17.5 mpg average which given the price difference of petrol to diesel makes it pretty close in economy terms to a td6

Post #50662 17th Feb 2011 7:55pm
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bozmandb9



Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

Too late now anyway chaps, I'm hoping to pick it up tomorrow if it's completed.

The conversion place have done a couple of 4.2 supercharged. To be honest if they'd had problems with them, why would they want to do more? There are plenty of engines which convert easily, like the M62 4.4 engine, so if the Jaguar Supercharged was problematic, why would they offer to do it and have the headaches when it comes back?

I'm sure there were plenty of problems with the early conversions on the Supercharged 4.2. I've read of installations where there was no fuel return line, leading to poor running and engine lights on (which seems to be very common, but not where it's done properly), it's being fitted with a flashlube system, which may or may not protect the heads, if not then worst case scenario I'll get the hardened heads from JE after 30-50k miles.

Can't wait to pick it up now! Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

Post #50686 17th Feb 2011 9:57pm
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Ludzy



Member Since: 27 Oct 2010
Location: Leicester
Posts: 191

United Kingdom 2005 Range Rover Vogue SE Supercharged Zambezi Silver

Well this is getting interesting now! Fingers crossed that it's all good. I'm just about to get the wife a fiat 500 for her to potter around in. Hopefully once a conversion kit has been successfully tested I'll sell that and get mine converted so really interested in your results.

You have to keep us informed.

Cheers

Post #50692 17th Feb 2011 11:57pm
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Phil.



Member Since: 19 Apr 2010
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 767

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

bozmandb9 wrote:
Too late now anyway chaps, I'm hoping to pick it up tomorrow if it's completed.

The conversion place have done a couple of 4.2 supercharged. To be honest if they'd had problems with them, why would they want to do more?


Oh dear! As you say, too late now.

Have you spoken to JE yet? You'll definitely be calling them shortly when the valves melt and it won't take 30k+ miles before they do. That's if you get that far. What LPG kit have you fitted?

See my recent post on FFRR if you want an insight in my nightmare experience converting a 4.2 S/C to LPG.

Best of luck mate, I hope it goes well. Please keep us informed.

Post #50850 19th Feb 2011 10:48am
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RRUK
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Member Since: 08 Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6342

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

I was in JE on Friday last week and this came up in conversation. They mentioned they had done an early SC but it was problematic due to the hardened heads required.

As the SC are generally cheaper to buy than the TDV8s, I'd notionally put that saved money in the purchase towards petrol and leave as is (IMHO)

But, if we didn't try these things we wouldn't know for the future so please keep us informed and let us know if you have any issues. Discovery 4 HSE
1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF
1982 Series 3 Hard Top

*Gone:L462 D5 HSE LUX, L663 Defender 110 HSE, Discovery 3 HSE, 2014MY Range Rover Sport 5.0 Supercharged AB Dynamic; L405 Exec Vogue SE 4.4, 5.0 Supercharged Autobiography, Defender TDCi XS CSW, Defender TD5 HT, Vogue SE TDV8, Vogue TD6, RRSport SC 4.2V8, Classic 3.9 Vogue Auto, Land Rover Series 3 SWB

Post #50860 19th Feb 2011 11:15am
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bozmandb9



Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

There seem to be plenty of Jags and RRS s/c which are happily running on lpg, and they all have the same heads. To be honest if its all going to go wrong then the sooner the better, since if its within two years then its down to the conversion place to stump up for the new heads!

Will keep you all posted! Care not ready yet, hopefully Mon/Tues (hope they're not already having problems! Question Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

Post #50868 19th Feb 2011 12:05pm
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bozmandb9



Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

sharpm wrote:
If I'm following this thread correctly the OP is getting a gas conversion on an SC for £1500 ish

I'm on my second SC and did enquire about the gas conversion a couple of years ago and for a decent one it was £3k to £4k - so I'd be a bit worried about somebody doing it for half that now

My personal opinion is leave well alone as you may well ruin a good car and I doubt that it will make it any easier to sell on when the time comes just enjoy it as it is - even with AT tyres fitted I get 17.5 mpg average which given the price difference of petrol to diesel makes it pretty close in economy terms to a td6


Fantastic economy, is that from the computer or manual calculations? If I can get that from lpg I'll have a 30 mpg s/c! Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

Post #50870 19th Feb 2011 12:08pm
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Phil.



Member Since: 19 Apr 2010
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 767

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

bozmandb9 wrote:
Fantastic economy, is that from the computer or manual calculations? If I can get that from lpg I'll have a 30 mpg s/c!


If the price ratio between LPG/Diesel is still the same as a couple of years-a-go then it will cost the same in fuel as a 30-35mpg diesel. Typically 200-230 miles from a 90ltr (70ltr actual) tank.

Post #50883 19th Feb 2011 2:04pm
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Phil.



Member Since: 19 Apr 2010
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 767

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

bozmandb9 wrote:
There seem to be plenty of Jags and RRS s/c which are happily running on lpg, and they all have the same heads. To be honest if its all going to go wrong then the sooner the better, since if its within two years then its down to the conversion place to stump up for the new heads!

Will keep you all posted! Care not ready yet, hopefully Mon/Tues (hope they're not already having problems! Question


It's not just about the heads, it's the set up that will cause most problems unless you are very lucky.

For some reason (probably software) the engine management on the 4.2 S/C RRS is different to the 4.2 S/C FFRR. Most of the RRS 4.2 S/C LPG conversions set up well. The FFRR 4.2 S/C seems to be more complex and it's very difficult to get a good balance between running on Petrol and LPG. It's often ok for one but not the other. This makes for all sorts of problems because a cold start is always on petrol and then it switches to LPG at a pre-set temperature. So in practice both set ups have to work and if one of them isn't working well then all sorts of running problems occur. The 4.2 S/C engine management software is also constantly adjusting itself, making a good set up even more difficult to achieve. You may get a good set up for a while and then it automatically adjusts and problems occur again, often different ones. If you have half the issues I did then you will be driving around with the yellow engine management light on or waiting for it to come on every time you start it.

If your LPG guys get problems setting up the system initially then you may consider asking them to remove it completely and immediately before it ruins the petrol operation. It will be a lot cheaper and less hassle than trying to make the LPG system work in the longer term.

I did exactly what you are doing now 2.5 years ago on a 55 plate MY2006 with 20k miles, so appreciate your reasoning and enthusiasm. Best of luck!

PS While I'm thinking about it. Due to the calorific value of LPG, when making use of the 400bhp 4.2 S/C, the LPG has to switch to petrol on high load and then back again to LPG. This change over point can also be a point that set up problems occur.

I don't know if mine had a fuel return line but it does seem to be the holy grail for the 4.2 S/C according to the LPG forums.

Post #50884 19th Feb 2011 2:23pm
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bozmandb9



Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

Phil. wrote:
bozmandb9 wrote:
There seem to be plenty of Jags and RRS s/c which are happily running on lpg, and they all have the same heads. To be honest if its all going to go wrong then the sooner the better, since if its within two years then its down to the conversion place to stump up for the new heads!

Will keep you all posted! Care not ready yet, hopefully Mon/Tues (hope they're not already having problems! Question


It's not just about the heads, it's the set up that will cause most problems unless you are very lucky.

For some reason (probably software) the engine management on the 4.2 S/C RRS is different to the 4.2 S/C FFRR. Most of the RRS 4.2 S/C LPG conversions set up well. The FFRR 4.2 S/C seems to be more complex and it's very difficult to get a good balance between running on Petrol and LPG. It's often ok for one but not the other. This makes for all sorts of problems because a cold start is always on petrol and then it switches to LPG at a pre-set temperature. So in practice both set ups have to work and if one of them isn't working well then all sorts of running problems occur. The 4.2 S/C engine management software is also constantly adjusting itself, making a good set up even more difficult to achieve. You may get a good set up for a while and then it automatically adjusts and problems occur again, often different ones. If you have half the issues I did then you will be driving around with the yellow engine management light on or waiting for it to come on every time you start it.

If your LPG guys get problems setting up the system initially then you may consider asking them to remove it completely and immediately before it ruins the petrol operation. It will be a lot cheaper and less hassle than trying to make the LPG system work in the longer term.

I did exactly what you are doing now 2.5 years ago on a 55 plate MY2006 with 20k miles, so appreciate your reasoning and enthusiasm. Best of luck!

PS While I'm thinking about it. Due to the calorific value of LPG, when making use of the 400bhp 4.2 S/C, the LPG has to switch to petrol on high load and then back again to LPG. This change over point can also be a point that set up problems occur.

I don't know if mine had a fuel return line but it does seem to be the holy grail for the 4.2 S/C according to the LPG forums.


Hi Phil,

I appreciate all the advice, I just think LPG conversions are progressing very rapidly. I've heard of set ups able to deal with up to 500bhp now, which wouldn't have been possible one or two years ago!

I would certainly consider asking them to remove the kit if it turns out to be a nightmare. If the kit wasn't capable of handling the 400bhp, it would go back as well! I'm having the Lovato SGI fitted, which I read through the forums seems to be the ideal for this application.

Phil, out of interest, if you could find out if your car had the fuel return line fitted, it would be really helpful. Please see below quote from LPG forum:

Hi
The possible problem with the Range Rover Sport is the same as I had with my Jaguar XJ 4.2 which uses the same engine.
Engine running bad and engine light on all the time, it was hard to find a solution however when we did it was an easy fix.
The light on was due to the petrol fuel pressure getting to high when running on gas and the management system was trying to make adjustments. The Jaguar and Range Rover need a return fuel line if you want smooth running and the light out. My return was fitted inside the tank, this will take the pressure off.
Just check your fault codes to see if it shows fuel pressure code.
I hope this may be of help, if you need any more information or help let me know.

Packie.

If your convertor didn't fit one then it looks like this was almost certainly your problem. Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

Post #50894 19th Feb 2011 4:51pm
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Phil.



Member Since: 19 Apr 2010
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 767

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

I read that post earlier. It's about the RRS and Jag XJ rather than the FFRR.

My understanding is that the need to switch to petrol when at full load is not due to which LPG injection system is fitted, it's due to the calorific value of LPG which can't provide the energy to achieve the required power at high loads.

Mine was fitted by JE and they were great throughout. Give them a call and ask about Phil's S/C conversion. They will remember, so will be able to answer your question about whether a fuel return line was fitted.

And let us know how yours is as soon as you get it! It will be great if someone has found a solution.

Post #50902 19th Feb 2011 5:07pm
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bozmandb9



Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

I haven't got my car yet, but I have found a very successful prior conversion to a 4.2 s/c FFRR. It's a guy on Pistonheads, I found one of his posts and e-mailed to enquire about his gas conversion and received the e-mail below:]


Thanks for the e-mail. I've done the best part of 70,000 miles in mine since the conversion and its not missed a beat. There are always people who say you shouldn't do this or that but to be honest I haven't had a moments trouble. There is no loss of performance on LPG and changeover on running out is seamless. The only real bug bear is the rising price of LPG. Two years ago it was down at 47p, now its over 80p and they reckon inflation is at 3%!! I've been thinking about changing it for a Bently GT or a Phantom, but to be honest its such a great car I'm going to keep it for another 12 months. I recently drove it down to Monaco as I have a boat down there and used the continental LPG adaptor so I had cheap fuel there and back.

I generally on average get 15 mpg either on petrol or LPG around town and 20 on a run. So I guess if you take into account the reduced price of LPG that equates to about 20 and 25 mpg.

Anyway hope your conversion goes well. Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

Post #51026 20th Feb 2011 2:48pm
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