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jaguar3



Member Since: 25 Sep 2022
Location: Estonia
Posts: 193

Estonia 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Baltic Blue
Smoke screen fix by scavange pump modification

I think its time to share information about rebuilding vacuum oil pump on 4,4TDV8.
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic40047-180.html
I have drove at the moment almost 9000km with this modification, since that still no more smoke screen, no oil consumption and no any other negative consequence.
But still, all work at your own risk!
So, we know the reason is uneffective oil drain system. Most of time the system working properly, but sometime the oil pump are not able to rise the oil from the oil sump when couple factors coworking together: 1) low engine/pump RPM, 2) pump gets air, 3) positive air pressure after and negative before pump (working against pumping direction).
To avoid it we need to eliminate one of this factors. Wich one? Rise RPM? Not possible. With the pressure difference we also cant do much. But what about moments when the pump remains dry? What if we try to do something so pump never remains dry anymore? But how? Easy.
Luckly, the pump construction promotes that. Inside the pump, exactly under the oil intake chamber we have separate oil channel. This channel is connected with engine main lubrication system and its made for lubricating pump own shaft. There is oil pressure always when the engine is running. So what we can do? Of course, drill additional small channel between oil intake chamber and lubrication channel. This will provide a small oil injection inside the oil pump intake chamber and avoid the pump ever remains dry.
Pump get always littlebit oil = pump not remains dry = pump are able to rise the oil from sump ALWAYS.
Here the steps how to do it (I do it like that):
1) Disassemble scavange pump.
2) Clean it before opening.
3) Open the oil side (not the vacuum side), be careful with gasket.
4) Next you need to make drilling work. If you are not sure you can do it by yourself, take it to some workshop and ask to drill according photos below.
You need to drill the channel in three stage:
first, pre-drilling work, vertical channel, drill diameter 3mm, drilling 1-2mm deep only. Its not nacessary to do it, but it makes main channel drilling easyer.
Next, need to use small rod file to cut the thin wall between new hole and intake chamber. This will provide better oil flow direct to intake chamber. This will also avoid broking of thin wall during running in future and cause any damage.
Now, main channel drilling. Use 1,5mm drill. You need to understand exactly oil channel location and try to aim exactly there. Luckly, the diameter of oil channel is quite big and you have a little error tolerance as well.
5) Finaly need to increase the diameter of oil intake filter. Use again 1,5mm drill, do it carrefuly, dont broke the filter mesh.
6) Done. Put all together and install the pump back to the car. Now, in case if your smoke screen was caused by uneffective turbo drain system (most likely it was), your issue is fixed, drain system and scavange pump will work always and keep the oil sump empty.
However, if the smoke screen was caused by weak turbocharger, oil separator, oil filter valve or some other fault, this procedure will not help and you need to find real problem.



Click image to enlarge




Click image to enlarge





Post #676012 20th Oct 2023 10:01pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

Nice modification - have you checked the brake booster for oil ingress?

Post #676014 20th Oct 2023 10:40pm
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kevinp



Member Since: 28 Sep 2019
Location: Telford
Posts: 1113

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

Brave man and well done.
In your summary one of the things you highlighted was the 'oil filter valve'. Mine started smoking more or less after an oil change. I changed the filter again and found this item had come off it's locating post and was loose under the filter.

Since changing the filter, and presuming it might have stayed in place this time, there is no more smoke or oil consumption.
Do you think this could have been the reason for all my woes?
I presumed it was for draining the filter once the filter had been unwound.
Have you any idea of it's purpose?
Thanks Kev.

Post #676027 21st Oct 2023 9:47am
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jaguar3



Member Since: 25 Sep 2022
Location: Estonia
Posts: 193

Estonia 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Baltic Blue

Yes, this valve inside oil filter vessel quite often may be loose, just unclickt from sitting position. Each oil change need to pay attention to this valve. If oil drain channel is not close properly, lot of oil will pass into the oil separator during engine running. Separator can not separate so much oil and signifficant amount of oil may pass into the intake system.
Yes, this valve is made only for draining oil from filter vessel during filter change. Its possible to close this channel machanicaly and eliminate the problem this way. Well, in this case only negative effect you have is oil leak when you open the filter cup. I also thinking about this mod, but still didnt realise, just ensure each oil change so valve is sitting properly.

Phoenix: its not nacessary to check it, some small amount of oil must anyway pass into the vacuum side. It must be there, vacuum pump also must be lubricated, in other case it will get stuck and damage itself.


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Last edited by jaguar3 on 21st Oct 2023 11:14am. Edited 1 time in total

Post #676031 21st Oct 2023 10:44am
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jaguar3



Member Since: 25 Sep 2022
Location: Estonia
Posts: 193

Estonia 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Baltic Blue

And this is the oil channel Iam talking about, its made for pump shaft and vacuum side lubrication. There is a regular engine oil pressure when engine is running.

Post #676034 21st Oct 2023 11:01am
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kevinp



Member Since: 28 Sep 2019
Location: Telford
Posts: 1113

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

Well I think this is the only explanation there is as to why all of a sudden it was smokey and using oil and after I reattached it tightly by bending the tangs and using a small socket to tap it into place it no longer does it.
It's like a Eureka moment!!
It was using 1/2 litre of oil every few hundred miles and it now uses nothing.
I feel very happy that this must be what was happening and that nagging feeling that something was seriously wrong has been dispelled.
Thankyou. Thumbs Up

Post #676036 21st Oct 2023 11:09am
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DrRob



Member Since: 16 Apr 2015
Location: Petersfield, Hampshire
Posts: 4228

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

jaguar3 wrote:

Click image to enlarge


If I’m reading this correctly, in this picture the spring is not seated correctly as you can see it’s slightly off centre of the mounting hole? Correct? 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
New Defender D300 90 on order so "Rory" will be going to a new home....!
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------

Post #676049 21st Oct 2023 4:00pm
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kevinp



Member Since: 28 Sep 2019
Location: Telford
Posts: 1113

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

Click image to enlarge

That's a good spot is that Rob.
Click image to enlarge

Post #676053 21st Oct 2023 4:48pm
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jaguar3



Member Since: 25 Sep 2022
Location: Estonia
Posts: 193

Estonia 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Baltic Blue

Yes Rob, correct, it was in wrong position. This picture was done immidietly after removing oil filter at my first oil change. Its unknow was it in wrong place all the time or it was moving away during filter removing. Exactly the same case as kevinp explain.

Post #676055 21st Oct 2023 5:01pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2669

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey


2 different oil filter designs - does this interfere with the function of the spring plate sealing the hole?

 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #676124 22nd Oct 2023 12:49pm
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kevinp



Member Since: 28 Sep 2019
Location: Telford
Posts: 1113

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

Often wondered about that JayGee. Genuine one looks like it might not 'grab' on the spring valve and distort it, if that's what happening.

Post #676156 22nd Oct 2023 7:24pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2669

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

My thought is that the extended section may prevent the main body diameter from pressing down on the spring assembly? 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #676188 23rd Oct 2023 8:21am
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DrRob



Member Since: 16 Apr 2015
Location: Petersfield, Hampshire
Posts: 4228

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic68232.html 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
New Defender D300 90 on order so "Rory" will be going to a new home....!
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------

Post #676665 27th Oct 2023 9:42pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2669

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Pulled the oil release spring and cap just now and the rubber on the cap was very hard so replaced it with an M5 short cap head screw and some PTFE tape to seal it. 5mm is just enough to cut it's way into the alloy housing for a secure fit. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #680131 12th Dec 2023 12:54pm
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jaguar3



Member Since: 25 Sep 2022
Location: Estonia
Posts: 193

Estonia 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Baltic Blue

Half year with vacuum pump mod.
All working great, no smoke.
Thumbs Up

Post #690462 12th Apr 2024 9:34am
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