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Still say we need to introduce Sharia law  2006 (56 Reg) 4.4 V8 Vogue In Bonatti Grey (Gorgeous!!)

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Full Fat Ray wrote:

Still say we need to introduce Sharia law

Is a stolen car really worth making a human an invalid for life ?? I think my initial reaction would be yes if it was my car but really no way.

The best way to stop theft to make it as hard as possible to actually take the car and that is what car manufacturers are trying and make sure it doesn't pay to do it as in increase recovery rates, make it harder and harder to sell stolen cars etc.

There will always be people who are desperate or stupid enough to steal cars, whether or not they could lose a hand or head. Stiffer penalties have never really worked, case in point the US of A with the highest per capita prisoners in the world. Stiffer penalties put more people in financial trouble or jail, they don't reduce crime.

Sharia law to me is completely ridiculous, barbaric, unconstitutional (unless you have a constitution based on Islamic principles). So is death penalty. They have been proven not to work and only serve as a reminder that a lot of governments are just too stupid to understand the research that is showing them that. They are all failures as governments and human beings. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Oh and by the way the steering lock shown in the picture is useless. The steel in the rim of the steering will is just "pisbakkenijzer" or as we say in Dutch. You can take a bolt cutter/haksaw and cut through it in minutes and take the lock of in seconds. I have seen a guy do it for a TV show.

A friend of mine (many many many years ago) considered rigging up a micro wave antenna in the roof of the car so it would literally cook the brain of the thief. Not sure how legal that would be !!!! Needless to say he never installed it (that I'm aware of although I never drove his car after that remark).

After all, no matter how much we like our cars, they are just pieces of machinery that take us from A to B. And if insured properly we get most of the money back we put in. I'd hate it for mine to be stolen and all that but on the other hand it is better than crippling someone for life, or making it impossible for them to get a decent job something that might drive them to even more crime.

I think there are a lot of people in the world driven by poverty or lack of access to decent work, just look at the desperation of people crossing the Sahara desert into North Africa trying to get to Europe because they can't find any work in Sub Saharan Africa (recent article on the BBC) or all the Asian boat refugees etc.etc. I firmly believe the vast majority of people are decent people and a lot are driven to crime due to lack of "legal" alternative.

There is of course a group that are just genetically wired to crime and I'm hoping that evolution quickly weeds them out In that sense lethal anti-theft devices would serve as "Darwin awards". The problem is it is inhumane and makes the installer of a lethal anti theft device a premeditated murderer AND what about the accidental deaths due to the device not working correctly or activating when a rightful occupant of the car is using it.

I think the failure in Sharia law is something that is called in contracts "order of precedence" that is missing. Something that says that killing or maiming someone is worse than stealing. That would make killing (stoning, beheading) someone for adultery or sodomy automatically non-Islamic and therefore the executioners would automatically also need to be killed once they do an execution. Actually that is the one way I can see that you can make the death penalty illegal, the executioner is a premeditated killer, no matter how much the law allows for execution. How can you, as an executioner, defend yourself in a court ??

Anyway, enough with the legal argumentation of a layman. Killing and maiming is wrong even when you steal my car, that doesn't mean that the thief(ves) shouldn't go to jail and go into a rehabilitation program and all that. Keep your paws of my property, I worked very hard for that, you find some work of your own and make your own money. Otherwise go to a deserted part of the planet and live of the bloody land !!! MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

I really do not see why and how poverty would be an excuse for high end car thieves. If you steel food because you're hungry I can understand. Nowadays most of the unemployed and other social drop outs are helped by all kinds of social security programms in our western world. Becoming a criminal is in most cases a choise.

^+1

I don't begrudge a starving person stealing food, but in the western world I don't think you will find many genuine starving people.

As Robert rightly says, for the majority of the criminal classes, becoming a criminal is a lifestyle choice - why should they work hard when they can just help themselves to what is mine (or yours) 2006 (56 Reg) 4.4 V8 Vogue In Bonatti Grey (Gorgeous!!)

Like everyone else, if it were my car, I'd want blood!

While I shouldn't speak for him, I think ebajema was drawing attention to a civilized, effective response from society to criminality in general. It in no way excuses or condones the behaviour of the who do this.

We had a report here in Canada this week of a fatal car crash in Saskatchewan caused by two thieves in a stolen pickup truck. They were able to steal it because it had been left unlocked and with the keys inside the vehicle. The local police chief is urging motorists NOT to leave their keys in their cars.

it is only a car and not my kids... so if anyone wants to steal my car - go ahead - my insurance company is pleased to pay for it and i will buy another one...  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

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Since I have no real information on the link between poverty/lack of work and crime, I won't comment on this.

I do know that a lot of good honest people in our good western countries have a very hard time to find work, any work. People with good experience, work ethic and education still can't find a decent job. Now very few if any will revert to crime I'm sure but the more desperate people that can no longer keep food on the table may fall into small and ultimately larger stuff.

As for the high end car thieves, I think that those are more for the better organized "career criminals" indeed and I'm not suggesting that we should treat them like they are poor naughty schoolkids. However Sharia law and similar punishments are just not done in my book as per above even when they take my car although my feelings will say something different then my head. And in this case my head should prevail as feelings don't always tell one the moral and correct thing to do.

The arms race between the car manufacturers and thieves will never stop, similar to the race between the software developers and hackers. There will always be people that like to work hard at stealing from other hard working people. I just hope that evolution will weed out the bad apples quickly and make our world a Utopia in that sense.

My wife is currently doing a paper on morality and evolution for her philosophy study and that of course made me think a bit about this post and the responses.

No matter how much I would hate it that my car would get stolen or willfully damaged, the Sharia type punishments are not justified at least (IMHO) by people of a decent moral standard and I believe that this forum is full of those people from what I have experienced to date  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

So Ebajema, now you are not only saying that criminals are poverty driven but also that all muslims living by Sharia rules are lacking decent moral standards interesting point of view, something for your wife's paper, maybe.
(No offence, by the way)

If crime would only be behaviour, it could easely be corrected, even by punishment. But crime is mainly based on norms and values that are not in line with the society you live in. Your norms and values are the basis of your attitudes, your attitudes run your behaviour. And your norms and values are a product of your experiences (upbringing, environment, etc.) in life. So where do you want to start with building an Utopian world?

Thousands of kids in horrible neighbourhoods, with terrible experiences do not become criminals, some fall for the rollmodel of the rich carthief, heroine dealer etc. Now literature is even suggesting that the basis of crime goes even deeper as experiences and environment and that unbalance in certain neurotransmitters might be the reason people choose for a-social behaviour. Or is that the chicken and egg dilemma?

Nice discussion but way off range rover country. Sorry. Professional deveation....beroepsafwijking.

This has been in the states for a while now i believe.

Luckily if they tried it with my FF it wouldn't get them very far and my Citroens are a bit old school for such things, one doesnt even have RF unlock on it at the minute  FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
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"High tech war with the car manufacturers"

Sometimes low tech works as well. I read a few years ago about an elderly couple in California who were stopped at gunpoint by a carjacker. They gave him the the car, but it had a manual transmission and he didn't know how to drive it, gave to back and went looking for an automatic to steal.

(Yes, in Canada and the US, a manual transmission car is extremely rare.)