Hi,

This is my first post to this forum, although I have owned range rovers for 7 years now.

I recently sold my trusty v8 4.4 petrol (2002) and replaced it with a 2011 FFRR TDV8 4.4 back in April this year. The new car was less than 4 years old, had 91k motorway miles on it, was 1 owner from new and had full main dealer history. It is absolutely immaculate throughout, and I am a big fan of pristine well looked after high mileage cars.

A few weeks into owning the car, i began to notice a strange shudder/judder when coasting in motorway traffic, either when coming to a halt and occasionally when starting to move off again. Under load, the car drives perfectly.

This intermittent condition has slowly worsened, to the point where I took it to my local main dealer (the car has a main dealer extended warranty on it). where they witnessed the issue and started off by flashing engine and gearbox ecu's with the latest updates. If anything, it has worsened since then (although this could be in my mind!). They also said that there was only one fault code logged on the whole vehicle - an intermittent MAP sensor code.

It went back in to the main dealer 3 weeks later, and they had it for a further 3 weeks to investigate. They tried replacing the throttle body, had a case open with JLR directly, but 3 weeks later came back to me stating that they could not find the fault and that they would need to perform further diagnostic work (at my expense) such as removing/testing injectors, assessing whether the crankshaft sensor was playing up etc etc, all amounting to approximately 2k's worth of diagnostic work!

The issue is now getting worse and worse, and feels as though something is going to let go soon. I have been reading up about transfer boxes potentially causing this sort of juddering, but this seems to be associated with medium to full steering lock being applied, whereas mine does this in a straight line too. Also, although intermittent in forward gears, it ALWAYS does it in reverse - whether cold/hot etc. To me, it very much feels drive line related, and does not do it when coasting in neutral (so not binding brakes etc)

I have pulled and cleaned the MAP and MAF sensors with specialised electrical contact cleaner (the MAP sensor was pretty clogged but clean now), as occasionally my idle goes from silky smooth to what almost seems to be one bank of cylinders being slightly out of sync to the other (feels like a slight but regular misfire, and the engine loses its sweet synchronised sound and wobbles a little, making a bottle of water in the drinks holder produce small waves - I am not at all sure if this is connected with the judder or not). Nothing has made any difference, and the issue continues to gradually worsen.

If anybody out there has had any similar experiences, I would be very grateful as I would like to try homing in on something as the root cause. I am pretty technical, and performed lots of maintenance on the BMW engined petrol (water pumps, radiators, new front struts, air suspension valve block and compressor replacement etc) - Storey's diag software was invaluable for that, and I have nothing for the new beast

Any help would be greatly appreciated - I have read about similar things on chrysler forums where the zf8HP auto is also used in the newer 300c's, but haven't found anything conclusive.

Thanks,

Steve

Last edited by Sh55123 on 9th Aug 2015 10:43am. Edited 1 time in total

Steve, would it be an idea to get another garage to take a look, fresh eyes and ears????

Which was your local MD?

Not sure why you should be paying for diagnostics under the extended warranty..

My MD is Harwoods of Croydon - not impressed either, and I too thought that the main dealer extended warranty would cover investigation work, but they tell me not.

This is the first time I have owned a car with a main dealer warranty for years, so any guidance there too would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Steve

Ryan from LR customer relations will investigate the claim for you.

He is on here, give him a nudge.

if your cars under warranty ,you shouldn't pay a penny ,I'd be livid.

hope you get it sorted, 2007 tdv8 se ,stornaway grey

Sounds a bit like a torque converter issue.

I agree on the paying for diagnostics. However, I'd read the T&Cs first. I guess their wriggle out clause is that some things are excluded and if one of those things is the root cause, then you should be paying. The investigation is to find out what the problem actually is. Not nice but it might be in the document somewhere.

Thanks for the tips gents - hugely appreciated! I will look up Ryan and contact him as you suggest.

Does it matter that it is a main dealer 'extended' (or approved used) warranty? The manufacturers warranty had expired 9 months earlier, but they offered me the LR approved used warranty subject to the car passing the required inspection (which it did, and cost me approx £170). I am paying around 1k for the warranty, which runs through to next May. They have already fleeced me of a few hundred pounds for this 'investigation work' within the warranty period, and keep on reminding me that the further 9 hrs they have spent investigating to no avail are 'at their own cost' (sob sob).

Am i being taken for a ride then by the MD?

I suspected torque converter shudder too, but was hoping they might have suggested that too.

One thing I forgot to mention is that it doesn't seem to do it in Low Range, hence my slight suspicions regarding the transfer box. Always does it in reverse in normal mode, but smooth in low range.

Any chance that the park brake is sticking, possibly being out of adjustment?

I suspected that too, but it doesn't do it while coasting in either forward or reverse when in neutral. I have tried at various speeds, and no sign of it when in neutral, all the way to slowing gradually to a stop on a flat surface.

Brake caliper sticking (rears usually) could also be a problem. Easy to diagnose by feeling the wheels after a short drive. The wheel with the sticking caliper will be hotter. Since it has been going for a while (if it is a caliper) the bearings may now also have overheated a few times.

Driveshaft issues ?? Transfer box spline shaft not lubricated and starting to cause problems ???

For anything gearbox related, RRPhil is our gearbox guru and if there are known issues with the 8 speed, he is likely to know a bit more about them. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

I don't think it can be brake related, as it does it in reverse when stone cold, and doesn't do it at all in neutral.

I was also hoping that RRPhil might read my post hand have some ideas.

Dry transfer box spline shaft is one I hadn't thought of though-thanks!

I thought that my torque converter was on it's way out again, even though it was only 14 k old, it has turned out to be 2 half dead injectors, mine only really showed up under gentle driving conditions, and the full on performance was not affected in the slightest.

If it's your torque converter it will only manifest itself during the partial lockup stages, which on a TD6 are between 30 and 50, I would imagine that the TDV8 is at a similar speed range. I would suspect that you are having injector issues, and the only sure fire way to rule them out is to test them on an injector test rig, which will cost, I paid £17.50 per injector. I suspect that this is what your stealer is trying to avoid, as they will have to remove them and then send them to a specialist for testing. The Diesel Specialists that I use were a Bosch Diesel Service Centre, they did offer to perform a diagnostic session, which was priced at £65 per hour, and they thought that they would have a decisive answer after an hour.

Because my car had done 115k I just pulled the injectors and had them cleaned and tested, rather than pay them to do it, but in your case it might be worth taking a £65 punt just to have a report to hit the stealer with. I have found that the government are adding 10% bio fuel in to the diesel that we are buying at the pumps. This is causing no end of problems with engines and filter blocking up with algae and other bio nasties. So seeing that your car has covered a reasonably large number of miles, blocked injectors are not impossible.

Good luck  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Try this

http://www.boschautoparts.co.uk/bdl/loc_se...or=Service Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

FYI warranty will normally cover mechanical brakedowns, and not ware and tare, which is what I suspect the dealer is hoping for. Ie if it brakes they will replace it, but if it wares out then it's down to you. I would talk to your local Bosch agent, as the shuddering that your describing sounds very familiar to me, and even if it's not the engine, I'd rather pay the £65 per hour than stealers prices. And bare in mind that if your injectors are bad the stealer will only replace the with new, at LR prices, I bet that you can get all the injectors cleaned, test and repaired (if needed) for the cost of one injector from LR and have change  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!