so when the 'outs' win, will it be pretty immediate or will it take years... ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Well Stan, how much is there to unpick? Quite a lot from what I've read so I can't see it being a 5 minute job. I guess the easy stuff will go first, like booting our MEPs out of Brussels which can't be a bad thing if it leaves Mr Farage no place to voice his racist views.

Can't see the 'Out' vote winning though personally. Plenty say they will but when it comes time for the tick on the ballot paper a bit of fear might creep in. Bravado is easy but backing it up with action is less so.

I can't imagine that anyone would be against a region without borders, importtaxes, same tax laws etc. it is the faceless bunch of bureaucrats that is damaging the union. No democracy at all and a huge influence of the lobbyists. An ECB policy that ruins the middle class and helps politicians to dig us into deeper sh*t by lending them money that does not exist to spend on projects the people don't want.

I am against the union as it is managed now and we can all vote against it, the banks will not allow the politicians to get out. This whole charade will not lead to brexit. So don't hold your breath, our freedom, democracy and the right to get correct information has been sold years ago.

I am reminded of the EU bureaucrat Stan. In response to the first NO vote by Ireland to join the EU, he stated, we will keep going and going until we get the result we want.

With that in mind, I don't expect them to play fairly or nicely but I do expect that they will put every hurdle in the way and do so several times over meaning the process will take many years......I expect they would to try and make it cost us dear for petulance sake.

The vote needs a third option, Stay and Change. I agree the EU has turned into a monster that is going out of control and it is time to turn that around, not just leave in a huff. Won't be an easy option but good things require determination, persistence and patience. Like keeping a FFRR going one could argue  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

^ Good thinking.

The main and most profound change would be for the MEPs to be the governing body who has the final say as opposed to the appointed bureaucrats that it has now.

But that's the point. If change is required it seems on past record that to leave is the only option. The EU have already demonstrated very clearly that nothing will change, they even sold Cameron short on his reform demands. They have a very lucrative gravy train and are not going to let it go easily.

As Robert pointed out, the ideas are good but corrupt, faceless bureaucrats have distorted it into a monster which suits no-one's purposes except those in power.

To be frank, I would settle for a 3rd option of "Get rid of the Euro currency". Remove the power of the EU central bank and a lot of this evil goes away naturally. A Parliament is one thing, but with no power over the money it becomes what was originally designed which was a council for making things easier, common trade laws etc which I suspect nobody objects to.

Definitely leave.

Remove all the scare mongering statements of war, immigration, phone roaming etc, nobody can predict economic performance days into the future let alone years and much of any future policy if we leave can be decided upon by the Government of the day (just hopefully not under Cameron and Osborne). FACT.

The UK has a large enough educated and skilled population, perfect geographical position with historic international trading links, a global language and one of the largest foreign investment networks of any nation, it also has an existing Commonwealth network and historic relationships with other powerful nations, China, South America, USA etc. So taking that into account, all must agree that the UK has the ingredients to stand on its own two feet if it chose to. It also exports more to the rest of the World than the EU. FACT.

You don't need trade agreements in order to trade with foreign nations. But they can make things smoother and simpler for businesses. FACT.

The fundamental choice is not economic but one of moral right. Do you want laws, defence and tax decided by a UK elected representative that you can hire and fire every 5 years. Or do you like having everything decided by a foreign unelected body with many other priorities over the UK's position that you can do nothing about and are answerable to nobody ever. Its bad enough trying to get a team to agree something unanimously in a company meeting, let alone 28 different nation states with very different outlooks (Eurovision!).

It is a decision of Sovereignty over all other factors. When you grow up you leave your parent's house and become independent, there is risk, but the rewards can be immense and it feels great leading your own life and direction. A nation should be no different.

Immigration should be controlled and monitored in any successful state. I totally agree that easy movement of people is a great thing, but not free movement. A Government should look after its own people first before it starts looking after others so skilled immigration should be prioritised and non skilled workers allowed in if needed economically and in a controlled manner.

The EU has no intention of changing from its original brief (a federal state - Monet) that was never revealed to the British in the first referendum. Cameron's recent 'negotiations' show we currently have no power or influence with the current set up. Things will only change if a sledgehammer is taken to the system. If the UK (one of the top 3 financial contributors to the EU budget) leaves it shows that the fear and brainwashing has lost its power and could lead to fundamental change for the remaining nations.

And remember is a a vote to leave the EU not to leave Europe. We cannot physically move the country and Europe as a collection of diverse and interesting nation states is a great place, the bureaucratically unaccountable black hole of the federal dream machine is the issue and from what I am reading many other populations in nations including France and Germany are starting to question the point of an outdated protectionist political block.


 Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

watching this amazed by the few whom don't live or pay tax in the uk answering ! 1937 model y hot rod 1000bhp rover75 v8 vincert blackshadow plus several boats and other toyz ! ford f150 raptor Mercedes e class convertible jaguar f pace

I think a lot of foreigners outside of the EU and the UK don't fully understand the EU influence, secrecy and control that goes on. It is not a trading block like EFTA, but a federal union with a dream to be a single nation state.

I lived in Brussels for over a year and socialised with many of the assistants to the senior Euro figures (Kinnock, Ludford etc) and their mindset is so blinkered against nation state democracy. They all pay discounted tax FYI. Do as I say, not as I do........ Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

 1937 model y hot rod 1000bhp rover75 v8 vincert blackshadow plus several boats and other toyz ! ford f150 raptor Mercedes e class convertible jaguar f pace

Boatsandy, I did not know this was only an Island thing and we were not allowed to post.
You do not seem to realise that this whole European monster is killing all our economies, democracies etc. and a Brexit might be the beginning of change

I agree with Flashman and MZPLG. Change wont happen. They are so well off in their positions and so completely free, without any accountability. Come on they will not be in for any change. So let's start to demolish this european monster by a Brexit, than The netherlands might follow and who knows ...

tbh I still feel that its a uk thing expats pays there choices pays there taxes in other country should not be able to vote I have propertys in other countrys but don't vote there 1937 model y hot rod 1000bhp rover75 v8 vincert blackshadow plus several boats and other toyz ! ford f150 raptor Mercedes e class convertible jaguar f pace

Some of us "UK expats" still pay income tax in UK. No choice. John
2008 Stornoway Grey 3.6 Tdv8 Vogue - SOLD
2005 TD6 Java Black Vogue - Written off!!
GAP iiD BT-Sold

I do not vote in your country but on this question on this forum. I am a Dutchman and seem not to may have an opinion according to your post?????
You're really weardminded.