Haylands wrote:

Still mentions nothing about any additives...

They won't fix your box if their fluid breaks it, they'll just tell you no one else has had problems so it can't be our oil...

Still can't see the point of trying to save a few % of the cost of a gearbox on oil that "maybe" ok....

I'm as far from an expert in this field as is possible but if no one on this experienced board can produce s spec sheet that shows any difference in Mobil to any other brand would that not point to there not being any

It this just marketing ? 2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

That's the problem dolph, no one knows, not enough info from anyone apart from other manufacturers saying theirs is the same or better.... how do we know....??? they will say anything to sell their stuff...

They can say what they like about paying if their oil wrecks the box but how do you prove it was their oil, you can't, they know you can't, so they can say what they like....

It's all smoke and mirrors.....

One thing is 100% for sure though.... Mobil LT71141 will be fine in the 5HP24.... anything else.... pay your money and take a chance....  Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

In my view the issue is that the correct friction modifier pack has to be used in the fluid to produce the static and dynamic friction characteristic that is required for the friction elements – particularly the torque converter lock-up clutch, which is designed to continuously slip at low speed to isolate torsional vibration in the driveline as it has no damper fitted. ZF say that the 5HP24 requires the friction characteristics to fall between these boundaries :



The transmission controller is able to modify engagement pressures on the clutches, within limits, to ensure that slip speeds/shift times (and therefore energy dissipations) in the clutches stay within design limits, and it adjusts and stores these adaptions continuously throughout the lifetime of the transmission/vehicle to compensate for wear, etc.

If you alter the friction characteristics (e.g. by refilling with an unapproved fluid) it may be that the controller can compensate for this within its adjustment bands and the transmission will behave normally. However, if the level of adjustment is outside its boundaries then the clutches will slip and you will trash the transmission.

If you use the fluids approved by ZF (i.e. Mobil ATF LT71141, ZF Lifeguard Fluid 5 & Pentosin ATF 1) then you know that you have the right friction modifier pack in the fluid. If you use any other fluid, you have no way of knowing this. You may get away with it, you may not. However, as you’re unlikely to save more than £50 by using a non-approved (by ZF) fluid and a replacement transmission costs £2000+, it isn’t a gamble that I personally would be prepared to take.

Phil

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

Mine has the zf6 box as does plenty of BMW ( and others ) Liquid moly is approved for this box in BMWs so would that not make it suitable for mine.

This isn't an arguement about money , more are ZF , Mobil or whoever treating us like idiots ?

I've done 30k kms in mine since I bought it and my friend is a Indy BMW mechanic and has the sump filter kits for my gearbox in stock + the liquid moly equivalent fluid I also asked him to change transfer box and both diff oils and he told me that he can't use Liquid moly because they don't have an approved equivalent gear oil for the diffs 2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

I would be interested to know where it says liquid molley 1800? is approved for the ZF6.

It's very good value.

dolph34 wrote:

Mine has the zf6 box as does plenty of BMW ( and others ) Liquid moly is approved for this box in BMWs so would that not make it suitable for mine.

This isn't an arguement about money , more are ZF , Mobil or whoever treating us like idiots ?

I've done 30k kms in mine since I bought it and my friend is a Indy BMW mechanic and has the sump filter kits for my gearbox in stock + the liquid moly equivalent fluid I also asked him to change transfer box and both diff oils and he told me that he can't use Liquid moly because they don't have an approved equivalent gear oil for the diffs

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produkt...redirect=1

I may be reading this wrong but make your own conclusions 2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

Hi RR38. Sorry. I posted the link before I read yours It does seem the liquid moly claims to be a direct replacement oil for the ZF6 in my 3.6 tdv8

Happy days 2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

I totally respect what RRPHIL has to say on this subject.
And he is more than likely correct in his technical assessment of the 5HP24 fluid requirements.
Yes I agree that there is not a specific "approval" for Liqui Moly product GRANTED by ZF, this is why in their fact sheet they say;
"LIQUI MOLY also recommends this product for vehicles or assemblies for which the following specifications or original part numbers are required:
Allison TES 295 ; BMW 7045 E ; BMW 8072 B ; BMW LA 2634 ; BMW LT 71141"

So one of two things are likely.
1/ ZF wont give the approval on competition grounds.
2/ The fluid is sub standard and doesnt meet their specifications.

ZF/BMW/Land Rover are certainly confident enough in this fluids ability to see out the warranty period of the OE fluid and put a "sealed for life" rating on it.
And many of us have worn this rubbish on the chin and in the hip pocket.
Sticking with this philosophy if an owner where to do a complete flush at say 120,000km would the trans be likely to last for another "sealed for life" period of 120,000km? (using ZF specified fluid) I dont think so.
Its all very interesting.
I am confident enough that Liqui Moly is a reputable (large) company and what they advertise is correct so far so good for me and all I can say is the trans is better now than it was 3 years ago with the original fluid still in it.

By far the most important thing with hydraulics is cleanliness.

Top Tec ATF 1800

Low-viscosity high-performance oil of the new generation for automatic transmissions. It is based on synthesis technology with modern, high-performance additives. Aside from excellent ageing and oxidation stability, optimal shifting is guaranteed under all operating conditions thanks to the extremely high viscosity index. It enables long oil change intervals.
article number: 3687
bundle: 1 l Can plastic
palette content: 570
packing unit: 6 STK
language: D - GB - I - E - P
Intended use
Developed for ZF 6HP19/26/32 and ZF 8HP 45/55/70/90 type automatic transmissions that are installed in various Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche, etc. vehicles. Meets further specifications, allowing it to cover an even wider range of vehicles. Usage according to the prescribed specifications from the unit or vehicle manufacturer.
Specifications and approvals
Dexron VI ; Mercon LV

LIQUI MOLY also recommends this product for vehicles or assemblies for which the following specifications or original part numbers are required:
Aisin Warner AW-1 ; BMW 83 22 0 142 516 ; BMW 83 22 2 152 426 ; BMW 83 22 2 289 720 ; BMW M-1375.4 ; Fiat 9.555550-AV5 ; JWS 3324 (Aisin Warner) ; Land Rover TYK 500050 ; Hyundai SP IV ; Mazda ATF FZ ; Nissan AT-Matic S Fluid ; Toyota WS ; VW G 055 005 ; VW G 055 540 ; VW G 060 162

More Products
name art.-nr. bundle languages
Top Tec ATF 1800 20662 5 l Canister plastic D - GB - I - E - P
Top Tec ATF 1800 3688 20 l Canister plastic D - GB - I - E - P
Top Tec ATF 1800 3689 60 l Drum sheet metal D - GB
Technical Data Sheets
Technical Data Sheet to article 3687 (EN)
Product picture
Product picture to article number 3687
Security data sheets
Security data sheet to article 3687 (DE) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (EN) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (ES) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (FI) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (IT) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (PT) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (DA) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (DE) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (EN) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (ES) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (FI) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (FR) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (HR) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (IT) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (PL) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (PT) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (SL) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (SV) [1272/2008 - CLP] 2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

Top Tec ATF 1800

Low-viscosity high-performance oil of the new generation for automatic transmissions. It is based on synthesis technology with modern, high-performance additives. Aside from excellent ageing and oxidation stability, optimal shifting is guaranteed under all operating conditions thanks to the extremely high viscosity index. It enables long oil change intervals.
article number: 3687
bundle: 1 l Can plastic
palette content: 570
packing unit: 6 STK
language: D - GB - I - E - P
Intended use
Developed for ZF 6HP19/26/32 and ZF 8HP 45/55/70/90 type automatic transmissions that are installed in various Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche, etc. vehicles. Meets further specifications, allowing it to cover an even wider range of vehicles. Usage according to the prescribed specifications from the unit or vehicle manufacturer.
Specifications and approvals
Dexron VI ; Mercon LV

LIQUI MOLY also recommends this product for vehicles or assemblies for which the following specifications or original part numbers are required:
Aisin Warner AW-1 ; BMW 83 22 0 142 516 ; BMW 83 22 2 152 426 ; BMW 83 22 2 289 720 ; BMW M-1375.4 ; Fiat 9.555550-AV5 ; JWS 3324 (Aisin Warner) ; Land Rover TYK 500050 ; Hyundai SP IV ; Mazda ATF FZ ; Nissan AT-Matic S Fluid ; Toyota WS ; VW G 055 005 ; VW G 055 540 ; VW G 060 162

More Products
name art.-nr. bundle languages
Top Tec ATF 1800 20662 5 l Canister plastic D - GB - I - E - P
Top Tec ATF 1800 3688 20 l Canister plastic D - GB - I - E - P
Top Tec ATF 1800 3689 60 l Drum sheet metal D - GB
Technical Data Sheets
Technical Data Sheet to article 3687 (EN)
Product picture
Product picture to article number 3687
Security data sheets
Security data sheet to article 3687 (DE) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (EN) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (ES) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (FI) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (IT) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (PT) [67/548/EWG; 1999/45/EG]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (DA) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (DE) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (EN) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (ES) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (FI) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (FR) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (HR) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (IT) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (PL) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (PT) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (SL) [1272/2008 - CLP]
Security data sheet to article 3687 (SV) [1272/2008 - CLP] 2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

Here is the response Febi sent.

Hello Corey,

Thank you for your visit to the febi bilstein web site, and for your interest in febi products.

The fluid you are referring to is febi 14738 (1 liter) or febi 29738 (5 liter). These fluids absolutely meet the specifications of the vehicle manufacturers for the fluid specified as the original product. Each vehicle manufacturer has their own internal specifications that the various fluids are formulated to meet. In the case of febi 14738 (or the Esso LT71141) these meet the specification provided by Volkswagen (VW TL52162), Mercedes (MB 236.11) PSA, Voith (a commercial vehicle transmission manufacturer), etc.

In the product literature for Mobil ATF LT71141, you will find the statement “According to ExxonMobil, Mobil ATF LT 71141 is of the following quality level: VW TL52162�. ZF supplies their own branded fluid to meet the varying specifications; in this case it is ZF Lifeguardfluid 5. Many different producers of automotive chemicals around the world either formulate products to meet these same specifications, are approved suppliers of the chemicals to the vehicle manufacturers or the fluids are approved as authorized replacements.

The chemical industry uses state of the art equipment and technology to determine the formulations for the various fluids to insure that what they are offering is of the correct quality with the correct properties. febi 14738 and febi 29738 have been formulated to provide identical or superior performance, friction co-efficient and wear characteristics to the fluids specified by the vehicle manufacturers.

Please also note that the transmissions that use febi 14738 / LT71141 are not current state-of-the-art transmissions as they have been replaced by 6, 7, 8 and even 9-speed automatic transmissions that use a wide range of newer generation fluids. febi 14738 and febi 29738 remain one of our most popular fluids since being introduced over 15 years ago.

Please see the attached fluids flyer that lists all of the febi automotive chemicals.

Best regards,

Jeff Lateer

Managing Director

Hi. Just updating my thread. Since changing the oil temperature sensor in the zf 5hp24 gearbox, and discovering the fluid that was in it was red, filling it with 7 to 8 litres of what I have been advised is the correct fluid mobile atf lt71141. The gearbox has started to make a little whine noise when changing from 1st to 2nd and slightly when changing from 2nd to 3rd.
I have decided to have a garage flush the lot out of the transmission and put completely new fluid in. One of the garages I have contacted to do the job said that the 5hp24 should have dexron 3 mineral oil in it? I believe the mobil lt71141 is semi synthetic?
Our ff is an 03 plate 4.4 petrol v8.
Interesting to note the red fluid that came out was pretty clean, the sump pan wasn't full of sludge and the magnets had very little deposits on them. I replaced the filter at the same time. When I bought the car earlier this year the garage said it looked like the gearbox was either new or had had some work done on it, I suggest it might have had a service of some kind because the plastic parts of the oil temperature sensor loom looked old.

Last edited by smiler289 on 25th Oct 2016 8:04am. Edited 1 time in total