Hi all, I can see that the part numbers for the L322 rear subframe bushes are different between front and rear. Can anyone tell me the actual difference? Is it a size thing, or is it a factor of the rubber compound and compliance?

I’ve seen other posts that highlight using BMW X5 E53 bushes as being (supposedly) the same spec. However, the BMW bushes are the same front and rear so that’s one immediate difference that I can tell and possibly a reason to not use them. However, I’m keen to understand the specifics of why.

I’ve been doing a lot of research on the use of ‘alternative’ bush materials on the L322 and you can see another thread I started on Superpro bushes. However, Superpro don’t currently do ones for the rear subframe but you can get more traditional polyurethane bushes that would fit the X5 and am tempted to see how they may fare, assuming that X5 bushes will fit correctly. I can see a strong argument to not use polybushes on moving suspension parts directly linked to the suspension as they can ruin the compliant ride, but the rear subframe strikes me as an area where they would probably work very well. If anything, noting how much of a pig it is to change them out, going for something like the PSB solution (linked below) would make that job much easier, and the bushes would likely never squeak as they don’t rotate, nor degrade to the point of ever needing to change them again.

An example of such bushes can be found here:
https://psbushings.co.uk/product/4-x-bmw-x...kit-black/

Thoughts from anyone with knowledge on differences between front and rear bush specs, difference between L322 and X5 E53 specs, or use of polyurethane bushes in rear subframe most welcome! TYIA

Andy Andy

2010 4.4TDV8 Vogue SE in Santorini Black with Ivory interior
2017 Audi SQ5 3.0 V6T Quattro in Volcano Red
2001 Audi Allroad 2.5 TDI manual with low-range in Highland Green. Currently SORN whilst undergoing some serious restoration!

Hi Andy, I've got some of the bushes in front of me.
The KHC000060 have an oval metal hole in the top going straight down to the rubber.
The KHC000050 have a square metal top going down to a round hole.
Looking from underneath they both look identical.
I got the Land Rover lube as well.
You have to drill some rivets out to remove the old ones.

Last edited by kevinp on 31st Oct 2022 9:39am. Edited 1 time in total

Hi Andy, let me know what you do - as I need to do the same

have spotted that my rear hub upper bush has excessive play one side, and its not that great on the otherr side, so I want to replace them both, I have MY11, and that X5 rear bush kit from PSB looks OK

below is the location of KHC000050

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

when i looked at the parts sheet i thought it said all L322s after 2004 were the same
i cant work out what that picture is at all, certainly different to what i was looking at
in the top picture
the one on the left is AD$65.3
the one on the right is AD$58.50 made i believe in Germany, sold in Australia
about 70 pound RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar

Last edited by knares on 31st Oct 2022 1:29pm. Edited 1 time in total

You're picture shows the wishbone arms bushing mate.
The OP was asking about the rear subframe bushes to the car body.

ok RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar

So...after much research and looking at pictures online, it's clear that the BMW X5 E53 bushes will fit in the L322 subframe. HOWEVER, there is a difference in the metal interface on the top of the bushings. I can see that the BMW versions are flush, and the L322 bushes have the slight protrusion, which is clearly linked to the orientation of the washer that sits between the bush and the body of the car.

From what I can ascertain, the L322 bushes need to oriented a particular way and the washer sits within a recess in the rubber. Therefore, one can only assume that the way the washer interfaces with the top of the L322-specific bushes, assists with this, and probably helps prevent the bushes rotating within the subframe (if that's even possible). The BMW bushings don't have this feature, and also use a circular washer. What I don't know is whether the BMW bushes need to oriented in a particular way.

What I do know is that the polyurethane bushes from companies such as PSB or PowerFlex do not need to be oriented and therefore, I can't see any reason why the POLY X5 bushes wouldn't be suitable. What I can't say with any certainty is whether OEM rubber X5 bushes would work due to the differences in the interface with the washer and possible issues with orientation requirements for the L322 versus the X5.

I won't be doing this mod for a little while yet as have other jobs higher up my list but I can't see a reason why I wouldn't give the PSB bushes a go as they seem like they would do a great job. I wouldn't use polyurethane replacements on the suspension parts with more movement, such as the arms, for fear of ruining the ride. However, whilst I do accept that the subframe has a lot to do with damping the vibrations from the road into the car, I would be wiling to give these a go due to the potential benefits. Like everything, there is always a compromise. By sticking with rubber parts, there is more compliance but also significantly less longevity. The benefits of significantly increased longevity of polyurethane appeals to me and there's only one way to find out how much compliance is lost and that's to give them a try!

If anyone gets there before me, please do feedback your experience both in fitment but also ride quality afterwards! Andy

2010 4.4TDV8 Vogue SE in Santorini Black with Ivory interior
2017 Audi SQ5 3.0 V6T Quattro in Volcano Red
2001 Audi Allroad 2.5 TDI manual with low-range in Highland Green. Currently SORN whilst undergoing some serious restoration!

The standard bushes, as in my picture, are actually riveted in place. Two rivets for each bush.

I’ve just done mine with the original LR bushes. They were TIGHT to get into place even when using the official LR lubricant.

I’ve read of the X5 bushes coming loose and don’t understand the point in fitting them if they not correct for your car? LR ones aren’t cheap but they’re not particularly expensive either.

The original bushes on mine lasted 15 years and weren’t horrendous when I removed them so personally I’d stick with genuine as it’s not a job I’d want to do twice.

It must only be on the later cars that they were riveted into place as on my 2007 they weren’t.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 5.0 SC Autobiography in Indus Silver with Jet/Ivory Interior
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Interesting that David. Wonder why they started using rivets?
There's no mention of them in the workshop manual either.
I've bought some rivnuts to hold mine in place when I get round to fitting them.

Indeed.

There’s no holes in my subframe where a rivet should be either. If I remember I’ll have a look at our 2012 as that’s never been touched so it’ll be interesting to see if it’s got them or not.

I bought a tool to do mine and it stripped the threads before it shifted the first one so I just put the entire subframe in the press. Going by the effort it took the press to shift them I’m not worried that they’re not riveted.

The manual says to leave the lubricant 24hrs to cure before putting weight back on the subframe too if I recall.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 5.0 SC Autobiography in Indus Silver with Jet/Ivory Interior
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

I bought the same tool after I saw it in your previous post. Gonna grease it up well and hope for the best.
I also bought a 24mm ratchet spanner to try and speed up the extraction.