Hi all,

Next week I am expecting to view a 2012 4.4 Westminster from a private seller.

The vehicle is garaged, relatively low miles for age, 78,000 and has a full service history (md then Indy).

Unusually it seems, the vehicle has not developed many faults in its life with repairs being limited to pads and callipers, recent new battery and starter motor, and a few small heating modules (unless there has been more I guess without paperwork)

As a result, I fully expect to be faced with some hefty bills if I were to take ownership and being the risk adverse type of person I am, I am trying to understand what the big ticket items might be in store for me. I won’t be running the vehicle on a shoestring and plan to have a 3rd party warranty to hopefully cover some of any repair work and a rainy day find for what is not covered.

I am aware of the oil cooler issue and air suspension struts (approx £800-£900 per strut fitted).

Any advice on what those other big ticket items might be and estimated costs? I am fairly diy competent but wouldnt start changing turbos myself for example

Hope you can all help and advise

Cheers

Daz

That's a never ending question...

Some live for years with no issues or big bills, some go wrong every day...!!!

At that age anything with rubber in it will be starting to show signs of age, suspension arms etc

Check out the buyers guide in the WIKI that highlights a lot of issues...

If you get a warranty check carefully what is covered, most will not pay for a lot of issues L322's suffer from, especially at that age...

Good luck Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

The best advice I can offer is to check the service history (which you've already done), check the MOT history (has it ever failed an MOT and if so what for and does it fail regularly? Evidence of poor custodianship?), finally how many owners has it had and did the last one keep it for long? Lemons tend to change hand a lot (Personally I would look for at least 2-3 years ownership for each owner, but that's just me).

We've had 3 L322's (1 x 2003 petrol V8 and currently have 2 x 2010 TdV8's) and none of them has been unreliable. Sure, they have problems, but what complex 11-12 year old car doesn't? You've identified the main issues, turbos are no more of a problem on 4.4 TdV8's than on any other turbo charged diesel. As Haylands says, rubber parts will deteriorate, but then you'd expect that.

The last L322's are far from unreliable, but they don't suffer idiot owners (who don't look after them) well. Drives:
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue - Stornoway Grey
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue SE - Zermatt Silver
1998 BMW E36 M3 GTII

As above, think you have mentioned the main issue, oil cooler, to me anyway. The rest will be consumables for rubber bushes etc it’s a heavy vehicle at best part of 3 tons.

Brake pipes will be another thing to check. Needed mine replacing a couple of years ago… perhaps £300 odd if you don’t do them yourself….

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Go in with your head and not your heart.
Have a suitable contingency fund for years 1 and 2 and then a lower figure for remainder.
You will need to spend on it given its age. This is where most bad press comes from = people buying a 10 year old expensive / complex beast and then expect it to trouble free and low cost bills. Won't happen.
See at least 3 or 4 then decide
My journey (4th post down)
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic44115-75.html 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
New Defender D300 90 on order so "Rory" will be going to a new home....!
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
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Cheers all,

Really useful. As was the wiki

The car has only had two owners, the most recent for 4 years.

Recently mot’d and the only advisories the vehicle has ever has for any MOT was for tyres which were replaced. (Pirelli). Seems very good to be fair but not going to be naive.

definitely going with a combination of warranty and rainy day fund.

Out of interest, when inspecting air suspension, what would I be looking for? I’m assuming any tears in rubber would result in it not working anyway?. So is it as simple as it works therefore it’s fine?

We bought our 2011 4.4TDV8 with 77K on the clock and recently sold it with 122K after around 5 years of ownership.

In that time, from memory, we had the following work done (not in order):

GENERAL SERVICING:
* Every year - Serviced without fail using the best low SAPS oil money can buy!
* Every 2nd year - Both Air Filters (there are 2, although the left hand one sees little use) & Pollen filter
* Fuel filter replaced
* New AGM battery
* Coolant replaced
* Tyres as required - every 18 - 20K seems the norm unless geometry is out
* Four wheel alignment carried out

BRAKES:
* Brake fluid replaced twice
* Brake pads & discs all-round (twice I think without checking my records)
* Front to rear brake pipes corroded & needed replacing - approx. 80K mile MOT failure
* Handbrake shoes replaced at approx. 100K
* Rear caliper pistons seized at around 115K (both sides within 5K of each other)

ENGINE:
* Auxiliary belt tensioner replaced (common issue, the housing cracks causing the belt to squeak, especially when cold). Newer ones are a better design I understand.

BODYWORK:
* Rear tailgate lower edge corroded (only seems to affect the later cars, post 2008? - after the seal under rear glass deleted). Had it treated, filled and resprayed with new lettering applied.
* Rear arches corroded slightly (light surface rust) where rear door seal sits over them. Sorted with prep back to bare metal, rust killer, re-primed and painted.
* Side steps corrode. Replaced once, then removed altogether
* Lower tailgate wire-rope straps replaced - they corrode and break.

SUSPENSION:
* Front lower suspension arms replaced x 2
* Front 'lower rear' suspension bushes replaced (big bush that connect rear lower arm to subframe)
* Upper rear hub knuckles replaced - both sides developed slight play
* Front Air suspension 'bag' stated to leak - replaced both as a precaution

MISC / ELECTRICAL:
* Drivers door handle cable snapped off at the ferrule - needed replacing
* Rear 360 camera failed
* Centre brake light LED's fail - replaced entire unit.
* Start / Stop button cracked and was replaced
* EGR temp sensor was flagging up a fault code, but never had it replaced and car never had any related problems. MPG was good. DPF soot levels were normal and regens reset differential pressures to spec.

ITEMS REPOTED AS COMMON ISSUES, WHICH WE NEVER HAD ISSUES WITH:
* Alternator failure - never had a problem
* Oil cooler failure - never had a problem
* 4 pipe donut thingy - never had a problem
* Air inlet pipework / connections - never had a problem
* EGR issues - never had a problem, other than temp sensor fault (which is very common)
* Rear VCD shocks - no issues, but I could see a very light oil misting starting to develop, so would think they'd need doing before 150K miles.


Not sure if ours had had an oil cooler replaced before we bought it, or it simply doesn't affect all cars? Although when we looked at a number of L322 TVD8 4.4's when we bought ours, the number with either a pool of oil under them, or oil in the coolant was shocking (like a good half), and I must have looked at a dozen cars until finding ours which seemed the best for sale at that time with full main dealer history and only 2 owners.

4.4 TDV8's do not tend to have turbo issues as far as I'm aware. I understand it's more common on the 3.6 TDV8 and then even more common again on 3.6's fitted in RR Sports, which some have speculated is due to a more compact fit in the engine bay leading to heat dissipation issues.

In summary and despite the list above seeming fairly long, I don't think these cars are any more troublesome than other large SUV's. All large SUV's are heavy on their brakes and suspension components and this is reflected in the list above. Factor in £1K / year for servicing and maintenance and you should be good.

You would be buying one of the best cars on the planet, I've temporarily swapped into a fairly newish XC90 and frankly, I'm seriously regretting it. The driving position, visibility, fit & finish, experience is not in the same league as an L322 RR.

Hope this helps you a little,


Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

I'd also get down on the dirt and pay good attention to both subframes, sills and any bubbling paint on the arches.

If all is good and you decided to go for it.....lanoguard it or any underseal protection will give the RR a fair chance of survival.

Its a 10 plus year Range Rover.

(im regretting not doing mine sooner ) If it dont work.......burn it!

If the IId tool cant fix it.......burn the FF.

If the FF cant be fixed......buy a Land Cruiser!

If the LC cant be fixed..............................................BUY a horse !!

Press every button in the car and make sure it works. This includes windows, electric seat controls, heated seats and air con.

Most warranty companies become utterly useless once a car hits 10 years old so check very carefully what is and isn't covered on the policy you're looking at.

If you find a good independent LR garage that you can work with to keep it in tip top shape then you are likely to be better off putting the money for the warranty into a separate account and forgetting about the warranty.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 5.0 SC Autobiography in Indus Silver with Jet/Ivory Interior
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Thanks all for the advice. Really appreciated.

Is there anything in particular to check underneath with regards to the air suspension?

My simple brain says that if the air suspension works perfectly, then there can’t be any issue with the air struts as surely a hole in a air bag would mean it wouldn’t work at all?

Unless you can check for worn but not torn rubber?

I bought my 2012 Westminster tdv8 in January this year. It had 53k miles. I have replaced all fluids except the gearbox and I will get it done when the car is next in for work. In 11 months and 8k miles the Rangie has been flawless. I know that run won't last forever but keep it maintained and hopefully it won't all break at once. They are a fantastic vehicle.
Also airbag dampers can be got from oem suppliers for much less than £800 a corner.

Find yourself a good local independent who can maintain it for you.
And good luck with the viewing.

Air suspension checks I would do without any form of diagnostic kit:

1) On level ground - Lower the car to access height
2) Raise to off-road height by pressing heigh control button up twice. Make sure the car rises quite smartly, I've never timed it, but will a full air reservoir, it should go from access height to off-road height in less than 10 seconds. Note - if you do this several times it will go more slowly as the reservoir will become empty and all air required for vehicle raising will be coming from the compressor alone. The car will raise in stages, rear first from memory, this is normal.
3) Do the above test a couple of times and listen for the suspension compressor kicking in, it's in the boot, but you'll hear it from outside as a humming / buzz.
4) Make sure the vehicle looks level and isn't lopsided
4.5) Look for any warning messages on the dash display!
5) Have a look at the front air bags, if they look new then they may have been replaced already! They're easiest to inspect when at full off-road height.
6) Listen for any hissing sounds indicating a major leak
7) The front air bags will show cracking on the bottom edge of the rubber where it folds over itself when at lower heights - if it looks lightly cracked, then that's pretty normal tbh, it doesn't mean they're going to blow any time soon, but could be a haggling point, especially if they're 11 years old.
8 ) Rear air bags in my experience are less problematic (and cheaper as they're separate to the shock)
9) If possible look at the car after it's been left for a couple of days (or at least overnight), if there's a small leak somewhere it'll lower on one corner or both wheels across the same axle.

Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

I looked at a warranty when I bought my Westminster over 4 years ago, didn’t bother because of the price & how finicky warranty companies are. Decided to open another bank account & save £150 a month for any servicing or repairs that are needed. Accounts soon adds up to a nice little amount……then suddenly disappears for some reason🤣 2012 Orkney Grey Westminster 4.4TDV8 with Ivory interior.........nice!
BMW R1200GS
Alfa Romeo Giulietta
Just one Montesa now, 349 White Wonder
Austin A40 Farina MK2
1975 Morris Marina 1.8TC

Check for water ingress in the spare wheel well (lift boot floor) and in both of the boot side compartments (covers come off with a handle at top). Check for any moisture, damp or "green" furring of connectors etc.
Walk away if any signs of damp  2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
New Defender D300 90 on order so "Rory" will be going to a new home....!
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
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