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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2642

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey
TDV8 - low miles 3.6 or average mile 4.4?

Not sure I can hold off the L322 itch until the market cools which may be another 6+ months….
Will be hit by ULEZ in a few months which on current usage will add about £2k per year to running costs but a ULEZ compliant 405 or even D4 is double what I’d be willing to pay now but in 2-3yrs they will be possible future cars for sure.
I’m fishing in the £15-17k area and seen a few low mile 3.6’s which look interesting but most 4.4’s are average miles (around 100k). Most usage is m-way so not too bothered by the mpg differences. I can do basic servicing myself but although experienced and competent enough to tackle more complex jobs I just don’t have the time (or see it as a good use of my time) to get my hands dirty these days so a low miler has it’s attractions. I’m prepared to take a 2-3k premium hit on a low mile 3.6 at current market prices but for a low mile 4.4 that’s looking like a 5-7k premium which I can’t justify. Your collective thoughts and experiences are welcome!

Post #605153 30th Aug 2021 10:21am
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northernmonkeyjones



Member Since: 24 Mar 2012
Location: derby
Posts: 8479

United Kingdom 2016 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Santorini Black

If you can find a nice 90-100k 4.4, I’d take that any day over a 40,000 mile 3.6.

Better engine, better brakes, better gearbox, adaptive damping, 300+ Horses, better economy. Then you come onto the fact that a low mileage 3.6 would have barely moved and they do not like sitting about.

Condition and history is the key. Has it got lots of pieces of paper with it for work done. Most of these cars will be needing or will have had some suspension work to replace bushes etc, don’t rely on the MOT saying they are OK, unless they are totally shot it’s quite difficult to tell. It shouldn’t bang and rattle when you drive it, if it does then it needs work, which doesn’t have to be expensive if you know what you are doing and can spanner.

Low mileage won’t negate the risk of needing work any less that high mileage will make it necessary. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Post #605156 30th Aug 2021 10:31am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2642

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Ideally I’d prefer a 4.4 for broadly the reasons you outlined but as there is very little way of knowing what kind of miles ( short urban trips or long M- way cruising) a car has done I’d take the punt on the lower mile option esp if it’s not got a DPF. Not terribly convinced cars don’t benefit from being sat about and yet to find a mechanical system that wears less with more use. As mentioned in another thread I’m wary of DPF equipped cars used predominantly in urban environments for short trips. There’s a couple nr me I’m just not even considering for this very reason - well outside urban areas will be my main search areas.

Post #605169 30th Aug 2021 12:16pm
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mjdronfield



Member Since: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 7625

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

4.4 every day of the week. Even if you have a DPF issues, its way less expensive than the turbos going on a 3.6 and being fired into the engine…..

Yes, loads of folk have a 3.6 and don’t have turbo issues, but then loads of folk have a 4.4 and don’t have DPF issues.

That’s without the benefits of a 4.4 over a 3.6.

I skipped the 3.6, as I didn’t need the worry…. Knowing my luck 🤣

Both are fine cars…… have you driven a few?

Thumbs Up 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Post #605174 30th Aug 2021 1:23pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2642

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

All things being equal I'd certainly have a 4.4 over a 3.6 but things are not equal as 4.4's have a substantial price premium over a 3.6 at similar mileages hence the question based on different mileages. I'd expect the chance of engine wrecking turbo failure to be low on a low mileage 3.6 and AFAIK the turbo's fail due to ingesting broken EGR's on high mileage units rather than just self destructing of their own accord but if I'm mistaken and it's a similar not so random event like the V6 crank failure I'll happily stay clear as I am from D4's and RR sports. I've driven a 4.4 and it wasn't love at first sight. I'm not buying an L322 for speed, nimble handling and B road thrills though so not sure I'd feel I was missing something with a 3.6 in terms of performance in the same way that I'm taking a big hit in that department letting my A6 Allroad 3.0TDI go Big Cry

Post #605177 30th Aug 2021 1:57pm
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mjdronfield



Member Since: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 7625

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

I’d still take a higher mileage 4.4 over a 3.6, but I take your points.

Not sure we ever got to the bottom of why the turbos fail, despite a couple of threads looking for the reasons.

Perhaps spend “as little as possible” to get what you want, and if you end up loving L322s, you can then upgrade to a 4.4 in due course?

Thumbs Up 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Post #605179 30th Aug 2021 2:02pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2642

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Plan B was to get a much cheaper L322 and not trade in my Audi at all but owning 2 cars seems mad - but so does owning any L322 Laughing

Post #605182 30th Aug 2021 2:26pm
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cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 695

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Causeway Grey

I ran a 3.6 & 4.4 together for a couple of years and while I agree that the 4.4 is a much better car in many ways on paper I found the everyday drive almost identical. I never once felt like I was missing anything when I was in the 3.6. A 6 or 8 speed gearbox? does it matter when both are so good that you can't feel the changes and rarely know what gear you're in?
CVD suspension, is it that much better? my 3.6 still drives fine after 180K miles but I've had to change the dampers on my 4.4 at just over 100K at an eye watering cost (IIRC about 4 or 5 times the cost of 3.6 dampers).

It's a hard choice but if it was my money I would be looking for a 3.6 if only because I think that older cars are not looking quite as overvalued as newer cars at the moment

Post #605190 30th Aug 2021 4:04pm
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alanm_3



Member Since: 19 Feb 2011
Location: my House, unless I’m not at home, in which case I’m somewhere else.
Posts: 6652

Scotland 2017 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

I don’t believe the TDV8 turbo failures are mileage dependant, so using that as a barometer to further failures could lead to a false sense of security.
There are reasons why 4.4s have a premium over 3.6s and they have been mentioned in other threads.

The decision I’d be making us, do I buy the better albeit more expensive car, or buy a lesser car with the potential for a huge bill.

Your call at the end of the day. Thumbs Up Got - 2017 SDV8 Autobiography in Loire Blue
Had- 2008 TDV8 Vogue SE in Java black
Had - 2007 S/C in Stornoway Grey

Post #605207 30th Aug 2021 7:00pm
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Chapeau! Velo



Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: Down South
Posts: 115

United Kingdom 2008 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Tonga Green

My 2ps worth is that the 4.4 is the best of the L322 range, as it should be being the last incarnation, but I struggle with the price differential between the 3.6 & 4.4 at the moment. Prices of both are rising but I don’t think a 4.4 is twice the car noting that some asking prices are twice as much for a similar mileage machines.

Don’t be put off by a higher mileage 3.6, it can make economic sense especially if a lot of out of service maintenance has already been done. On the 3.6 turbo question, mine were done owing to carbonated veins and the actuator not cycling, most likely cause was short local trips. A relatively straightforward job (if a bit long and fiddly). I understand that the other cause is EGRs disintegrating into the engine which is apparently catastrophic; I’ve no idea which is the more common!

Post #605210 30th Aug 2021 7:09pm
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jackie-o



Member Since: 15 Jun 2018
Location: Sweden
Posts: 224

Netherlands 

I had the exact same discussion with myself 2 years ago....ended up buying a 4.4.

At the end of the day you don´t buy a 10 year old Range Rover because its smart (although I´d argue they are fantastic value for money).

I cant contribute any points without repeating what others have already written above, but since this is a purchase of "feeling" just find the best car you can fit in your budget. i.e good condition, few owners and a service history where you can see that original parts have been used, correct oils etc.....

If you can live with the risk of the turbos , then I´d easily take a pristine 3.6 over a half decent 4.4

If you want to compare like for like tho, I´m guessing its slim pickings as only the 2010 3.6 has the same interior as the 4.4, at least in the EU. RR Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - 11
Toyota Land Cruiser Prado - 02

LR Discovery 4 SDV6 -11 - Gone
RR Vogue 3.6 TDV8 - Gone

Post #605216 30th Aug 2021 8:07pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2642

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Thanks for all the comments. There are 3 potential low mile 3.6’s on Autotrader all just under £17k 2 of them facelift so same as the 4.4 apart from engine and gearbox. Similar mileage for a 4.4 is £5-7k more. Looking at MOT records on 4.4’s at around 100k miles (of which there are quite a few) and £17k and I’m seeing a lot of advisories on leaking and weak shock absorbers which to be honest I would expect at this mileage.

Post #605231 31st Aug 2021 7:40am
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DrRob



Member Since: 16 Apr 2015
Location: Petersfield, Hampshire
Posts: 4219

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

4.4 oil coolers leak. Most around 80K miles. I'd be looking for evidence for a new one fitted at some point.
Some folks just do the gaskets but I've seen evidence of warping on some
Mine had a brand new one fitted. Advanced Factors sell them. Hard to get currently from LR. 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
New Defender D300 90 on order so "Rory" will be going to a new home....!
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------

Post #605232 31st Aug 2021 8:19am
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alanm_3



Member Since: 19 Feb 2011
Location: my House, unless I’m not at home, in which case I’m somewhere else.
Posts: 6652

Scotland 2017 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

And don’t forget that around MY10, TDV8s had poorer brakes fitted. Got - 2017 SDV8 Autobiography in Loire Blue
Had- 2008 TDV8 Vogue SE in Java black
Had - 2007 S/C in Stornoway Grey

Post #605234 31st Aug 2021 8:45am
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mjdronfield



Member Since: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 7625

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

I definitely think a facelifted 3.6 with TFT screen, smaller brakes and possibly DPF would not be the way to go. Would be at a premium price compared to other 3.6s…. You need a 4.4 if it’s a facelift that catches your eye.

You will find something that takes your fancy. I see you commented on the 4.4 in the For Sale section with 52k on…. Is that too far out the budget?

Thumbs Up 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Post #605237 31st Aug 2021 9:08am
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