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nicedayforit



Member Since: 11 Jun 2011
Location: Beside the Solway
Posts: 3954

England 2004 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Giverny Green

Do you have any similar pics showing the heater assembly?

Post #617807 28th Dec 2021 2:52pm
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SpitfireS



Member Since: 10 Jun 2019
Location: Mainz
Posts: 79

Germany 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

Well... there already IS an aux water pump.
#5 in this picture below

Click image to enlarge

But I can't find it in the big picture I posted earlier, showing the whole engine cooling cycle.

Heater core, best I could find
Click image to enlarge

As far as I understand this shows the complete heater/airco block upside down.
The small outlet top left is on the bottom of it, the condense water outlet.

What if a pre-heater & pump is mounted inline with the OEM aux water pump?
If there is space there of course.
Or maybe there is a heated version available of the aux pump?
That would be amazing!
And only in countries where LR thinks it's needed?
I donno, just typing out loud Wink

Post #617820 28th Dec 2021 5:44pm
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nicedayforit



Member Since: 11 Jun 2011
Location: Beside the Solway
Posts: 3954

England 2004 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Giverny Green

Just curious, why not arrange to run the FBH to heat the engine overnight.
The condition of the battery isn’t an issue, just install a permanent smart battery charger in the boot space connected to the car and connect mains power to the battery charger at night.
Forgive my simplistic thinking, no doubt someone will helpfully point out why this couldn’t be done.
I can’t see any reason why this wouldn’t work albeit the FBH would work more and might require servicing say annually.
Such an arrangement relies on more moving parts than an electric heater but as a side issue you would always have a fully charged battery, it also leaves the car as manufacturered.
Meantime I shall try and decipher the above diagrams.

Post #617825 28th Dec 2021 6:08pm
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nicedayforit



Member Since: 11 Jun 2011
Location: Beside the Solway
Posts: 3954

England 2004 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Giverny Green

In workshop manual is there a diagram showing the coolant flow direction in the system?
Pity you don’t have a Td6, l could show you where to install an aux heater on that. Very Happy

Post #617845 28th Dec 2021 10:10pm
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SpitfireS



Member Since: 10 Jun 2019
Location: Mainz
Posts: 79

Germany 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

Reading about the FBH on here, or on another RR forum, I found some did modify that system to make it heat the engine too.
It was just mentioned in a post, no description or anything, apart from changing or removing the change-over valves, as far as I remember.

This is the only schematic of the cooling system I could find.
As you can see, it shows the engine as one block, so it's not very useful to pick a place for a pre-heater.

Click image to enlarge


To heat the engine the FBH would have to run longer than 30 minutes?
Using the 240V to charge the battery while the FBH runs (longer) makes sense.
They restrict the FBH runtime on battery voltage and it's even linked to the ambient temperature!
So it might run shorter during cold nights, when you need it most.
To bypass that control loop is going to be difficult, even if the voltage stays high due to the charger.
The ACT might decide "No, it's too cold to run the FBH any longer as it WILL drain the battery" not knowing it's charged.

So far, I think, adding a pre-heater inline with the OEM aux pump is the best solution?
Don't use the FBH, so all the valves stay as they are in the image, and everything gets warm.

I wonder what LR in Sweden will answer when I ask them about an electric pre-heater.

Smile

Post #617848 28th Dec 2021 11:49pm
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nicedayforit



Member Since: 11 Jun 2011
Location: Beside the Solway
Posts: 3954

England 2004 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Giverny Green

Well having tried to make out the coolant flow on the above diagrams l have to admit defeat, l just can’t figure it out.
The one thing l would definitely recommend is not to connect any auxiliary heater to the FBH pipe work. There are too many bits in the circuit to be able to guarantee they will be open to flow when required.
I still think the best place to connect a heater is into one of the coolant pipes to the cabin heater but this may not be practical due to the location of the pipes, the best option might be the pipe above the gearbox with two pipes run into the engine bay to connect to a heater.
Be interested if you proceed with this and what you do.
Just glad I’m now retired and don’t have to go to work on winter mornings with the prospect of having to start and then defrost a frozen car. Thumbs Up

Post #617948 29th Dec 2021 10:21pm
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SpitfireS



Member Since: 10 Jun 2019
Location: Mainz
Posts: 79

Germany 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

One would think / hope a location of a pre-heater is always part of the car and / or engine design.
Especially when we consider the RR a go-anywhere-anytime vehicle, right? Laughing
Of course the TDV8 users have the FBH and that's nice but LR designed and installed it in such a way only the interior is heated.
As if they don't care for the engine during low temp starts and rely on the proper 5W oil used.
(As a small side step, and certainly NOT trying to turn this into an oil debate!, I would like a 0W-30 in WSS-M2C948-B but so far this only comes in 5W-30)

The more I think about it, the more I like the pre-heater to be a clean, non-interfering-with-anything-bolt-on with a cable.
Much like the heater pads NobbyC posted.

I'll have till winter of 2022 to think of something.
And only if I can have a holiday north of the Arctic circle again Wink

My hopes are now with the LR dealers in the south of Sweden.
Smile

Post #618054 30th Dec 2021 5:54pm
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SpitfireS



Member Since: 10 Jun 2019
Location: Mainz
Posts: 79

Germany 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

The LR dealer in Goteborg gave me 2 websites to check for plug-in heaters.
The person I talked to said they installed aftermarket plug-in heaters 'all the time'.
One was the DEFA website, and it doesn't have anything for the 2012 4.4 TDV8.
The other was Calix, and it was promising as it has the 2010-onwards 4.4 TDV8 listed.
After looking at the installation pfd I found the engine bay position they showed was for a Freelander V6... so yeah...

IOW: nothing Big Cry

Is the 4.4 TDV8 oil pan smooth enough to stick a heater pad to it? Cool

Smile 2012 4.4TDV8
2000 Honda S2000

Post #619533 11th Jan 2022 10:06am
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