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Full-fat-Lance



Member Since: 06 Feb 2022
Location: Essex
Posts: 85

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Doing 20,000 miles a year is only 385 per week. Given lots of EVs have a range of around 200 miles or more, you’d just be Charing it a couple of times a week. Realistically though you’d probably just plug it in every night anyway.

The range only becomes a minor inconvenience when you’re going much longer distance. But even then, if you’ve driven long enough to deplete a fully charged battery, it’s probably time to stop and take a break, use the facilities and grab a bite to eat, with the car plugged in and charging as you do so. By the time you’re back to the car, you’ve probably got enough charge to complete your journey.

I appreciate it’s not for everyone, but I do think people have to stop worrying that a range of 200-300 miles is such a barrier. Not many people are driving that many miles every day! Of course, it’s more of an issue for people without off street parking and therefore somewhere convenient to park and plug in.

Post #625261 3rd Mar 2022 5:59pm
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northernmonkeyjones



Member Since: 24 Mar 2012
Location: derby
Posts: 8422

United Kingdom 2016 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Santorini Black

And therein lies the rub. Where they are needed most is in cities and this is where there is a distinct lack of hoe charging.

Having done 6000 miles in our E-Niro now I can honestly say that range anxiety has gone away. SWMBO still racking up 100 miles a day, means charging every other day at home does the job nicely. If we didn’t have a driveway then it would be a non starter.

As far as fuel prices go my local Texeco is now 158 for the derv, but I’m lucky because my local costco Diesel is still at 143.7, which is not too shabby and unleaded is still at 139. Would pay for the membership in one fill up pretty much Thumbs Up There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Post #625265 3rd Mar 2022 6:41pm
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Martin2



Member Since: 15 Jun 2020
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 602

England 

Full-fat-Lance wrote:
Doing 20,000 miles a year is only 385 per week. Given lots of EVs have a range of around 200 miles or more, you’d just be Charing it a couple of times a week. Realistically though you’d probably just plug it in every night anyway.

The range only becomes a minor inconvenience when you’re going much longer distance. But even then, if you’ve driven long enough to deplete a fully charged battery, it’s probably time to stop and take a break, use the facilities and grab a bite to eat, with the car plugged in and charging as you do so. By the time you’re back to the car, you’ve probably got enough charge to complete your journey.

I appreciate it’s not for everyone, but I do think people have to stop worrying that a range of 200-300 miles is such a barrier. Not many people are driving that many miles every day! Of course, it’s more of an issue for people without off street parking and therefore somewhere convenient to park and plug in.


Fine if your mileage is linear / balanced, but mine is zero for a couple of days, then 300-400 miles in a day. That means at least one full but probably a couple of large charges when I’m away from home. What about the diversion to make that stop, assuming the first charger you find is available and working? It’s not the range that’s the issue for me particularly, it’s the infrastructure. I have a lot of colleagues and friends with EVs, it’s only the Tesla owning ones who manage without regular issues.

But if I was doing short (100 ish mile) journeys in a day and charging from home most of the time it would be a bit different. Maybe. MY19 SDV8 Autobiography

Post #625267 3rd Mar 2022 7:13pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1260

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

Martin2 wrote:
Isn’t the 4p for 4 hours? if so, that 28-29kwh a day, which is only 70-90 miles. I had a look (different provider) because my wife now has access to a salary sacrifice scheme making an electric car a pretty cheap option, but and if you have one with a decent range that you use regularly, it was cheaper to stay on the variable tariff as the rate for the other 20 hours was pretty high.

The idea didn’t last long as with electric costs rising, expensive fast charging away from home and still limited range, it’s just not worth choosing something I don’t really want to save a rapidly reducing amount of money. It might be different if it was a low mileage second car, but it needs to do 15-20k miles a year and the only sensible way to do that in an electric car is to buy a Tesla.

All imho of course!

it's 5p and yes it is for 4 hours. Mine charges at 7.5kW which gives me 30kWh over the 4 hour period, I average over the year 4.6 miles per kWh and thus gives me a range of 120 miles in the current temperatures.
Octopus go didnt have high daytime rates the one i'm on now which due to expire was 5p and 13.2p, the new one is 7.5p and 29.2p, still considerably cheaper than other offerings. Using the new day rate unit price it's 6p per mile compared to 24p per mile for a 30mpg diesel. BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #625268 3rd Mar 2022 7:15pm
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RDR



Member Since: 05 Sep 2014
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 

Our British Gas EV contract finished end of Jan so we defaulted to standard variable with the Price cap. We have had a Tesla, bmw i3 and now a vw id3 as a secondary car which now costs about £5 to travel 150 miles in winter. I revisited the quotes I had for Solar and battery a year back, still doesn’t quite stack up but given the outlook for electric and fuel prices plus the fact I have a Range Rover phev on order I’m going to do some more maths before Solar equipment prices go through the roof!

Post #625269 3rd Mar 2022 7:16pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1260

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

Solar prices arent really viable, the break even point is still 7+ years (well for me anyway). Battery systems however make sound economic sense and if youre comfortable nailing some batteries together and connecting to an inverter charger they break even in under 2 years. My Octopus tariff comes to an end this month and my day units rise from 13.2p to 29.2p, I'm just about to order the final parts to make up a 32kWh battery to feed an 8kW inverter. By doing this my daytime units will be 7.5p! When all this done my future electricity bills should go down rather than up. BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #625270 3rd Mar 2022 7:26pm
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Martin2



Member Since: 15 Jun 2020
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 602

England 

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:
Martin2 wrote:
Isn’t the 4p for 4 hours? if so, that 28-29kwh a day, which is only 70-90 miles. I had a look (different provider) because my wife now has access to a salary sacrifice scheme making an electric car a pretty cheap option, but and if you have one with a decent range that you use regularly, it was cheaper to stay on the variable tariff as the rate for the other 20 hours was pretty high.

The idea didn’t last long as with electric costs rising, expensive fast charging away from home and still limited range, it’s just not worth choosing something I don’t really want to save a rapidly reducing amount of money. It might be different if it was a low mileage second car, but it needs to do 15-20k miles a year and the only sensible way to do that in an electric car is to buy a Tesla.

All imho of course!

it's 5p and yes it is for 4 hours. Mine charges at 7.5kW which gives me 30kWh over the 4 hour period, I average over the year 4.6 miles per kWh and thus gives me a range of 120 miles in the current temperatures.
Octopus go didnt have high daytime rates the one i'm on now which due to expire was 5p and 13.2p, the new one is 7.5p and 29.2p, still considerably cheaper than other offerings. Using the new day rate unit price it's 6p per mile compared to 24p per mile for a 30mpg diesel.


4.6 miles per kwh is pretty good, presumably due to the small battery / lighter weight than a lot of EVs. I think it’s more likely to be 2.5 miles in something with a longer range. If you can get most of your electricity at 5p or even 7.5p then that’s great, but if you get less than half at that rate and the rest at nearly 30p the gap to a combustion car starts to close. Add in fast charging away from home, which I understand can be as much as 69p per kWh and it could be more expensive than running a diesel if you cover a lot of miles (I do 30-35k a year across 2 cars).

6p vs 24p isn’t quite the right comparison though, as you would be getting a lot more (double?) than 30mpg from something that was diesel powered and similar size to the i3. Still half the cost though, but only when you 100% charge at home.

Just confirms my point that for a low mileage car, electric can work, but even with high petrol/diesel prices the gap is closing and will continue to do so. MY19 SDV8 Autobiography

Post #625295 4th Mar 2022 7:24am
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RDR



Member Since: 05 Sep 2014
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 

4.6 is really good I don't think we got anywhere like that with our BMW I3, Model S or current ID3 Sad Electric is indeed great for short trips but still doesn't work for everyone. If your lucky enough (like me) to have 3phase EVSE on the drive its pretty slick if you treat it like your mobile phone and plug it when you get home but without available infrastructure it doesn't work too well.

I think the EV is cheaper argument is dangerous to factor into the purchase justification you could be caught out. We jumped on the EV band wagon when the I3 first came out in 2014 primarily for the perceived Eco aspect (and the fact I'm a geek) and back then many of the public chargers were free and I ran that I3 as my daily commute for peanuts.

The one cost advantage (for me at least) is Sheffields Green parking scheme that allows me to use any council carpark or street parking for free. I'm fully expecting that incentive to demise over the coming years, the carparks are very busy with EV's now and I expect they will bring charging back in at some point, probably when they introduce the clean emission zone and we get entry to that for free. I also expect the road taxation model to change at some point too.

Post #625297 4th Mar 2022 7:52am
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Mr Tee



Member Since: 13 Dec 2010
Location: Near Wackyjim
Posts: 2592

Scotland 2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Luxor

Batteries for domestic, like the tesla power wall? I've got a few old full fat batteries I could lash together.. There'll be folk ransacking motors for their batteries soon like those scrotes stealing cats..

Post #625307 4th Mar 2022 9:56am
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex / Normandy
Posts: 921

United Kingdom 

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:
My Octopus tariff comes to an end this month and my day units rise from 13.2p to 29.2p, I'm just about to order the final parts to make up a 32kWh battery to feed an 8kW inverter. By doing this my daytime units will be 7.5p! When all this done my future electricity bills should go down rather than up.


You are doing well with octopus.

I had a contract at 0.16. They went bust
EDF took it over and eventually on the cap at 0.25 last October.
New cap 1st of April 0.35
Expecting 0.40plus in October .


EDF produce 60% of elec from U.K. nuclear
30 % from wind
Balance oil and gas.

Not sure I noticed the price of generating nuclear or wind going up over past five years. My price has quadrupled . Someone is making a few quid, and destroying the economy . Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Post #625308 4th Mar 2022 10:10am
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RSW



Member Since: 13 Oct 2015
Location: Devon
Posts: 41

United Kingdom 

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:
Solar prices arent really viable, the break even point is still 7+ years (well for me anyway). Battery systems however make sound economic sense and if youre comfortable nailing some batteries together and connecting to an inverter charger they break even in under 2 years. My Octopus tariff comes to an end this month and my day units rise from 13.2p to 29.2p, I'm just about to order the final parts to make up a 32kWh battery to feed an 8kW inverter. By doing this my daytime units will be 7.5p! When all this done my future electricity bills should go down rather than up.


Our 3.9KW install paid for itself in just under 5 years and that is not taking into account the cost of electric we don't pay the grid for, (Yes we are in on the good FIT rates which you can't get any more) or the free hot water.
I have looked at battery systems twice now and still can't make the numbers add up as the batterys won't last the time it takes the system to cover it's costs.
As I see it if your property suites the solar requirements and you have the cash then get it fitted as the price we have to pay for electric will only go up.

Post #625311 4th Mar 2022 10:50am
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1260

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

Mr Tee wrote:
There'll be folk ransacking motors for their batteries soon like those scrotes stealing cats..

I see your point but it's unlikely to happen, the weight would be a killer (literally). BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #625351 4th Mar 2022 7:10pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1260

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

Martin2 wrote:

4.6 miles per kwh is pretty good, presumably due to the small battery / lighter weight than a lot of EVs.

Carbon fibre shell does help, the battery is still quite heavy though.

Quote:

I think it’s more likely to be 2.5 miles in something with a longer range.

I used an ID3 for a while and manage to coax 39 mile perkWh out of it, a lot is down to driving style as it is with MPG.

Quote:

If you can get most of your electricity at 5p or even 7.5p then that’s great, but if you get less than half at that rate and the rest at nearly 30p the gap to a combustion car starts to close.

There are still plenty of locations that give free charging too!

Quote:

Add in fast charging away from home, which I understand can be as much as 69p per kWh and it could be more expensive than running a diesel if you cover a lot of miles (I do 30-35k a year across 2 cars).

45p is the highest I've seen, 69p is exceptionally high.
a 60mpg Diesel Car would cost £1407 in fuel @ £1.55 per litre, an electric car with 4 miles per kWh and 40p electricity would cost £1200 so the gap is close BUT most people wouldn't solely charge at 40p and the Diesel car wouldn't perform like an i3.

Quote:

Just confirms my point that for a low mileage car, electric can work, but even with high petrol/diesel prices the gap is closing and will continue to do so.

When I replaced my FFRR with the i3 my mileage stayed the same, 12000 per year and the i3 worked perfectly for me, electric DOES work even on high(ish) mileages. I doubt the gap will continue to close the cost of oil is increasing dramatically and it will continue to do so IMHO. Record prices of Brent Crude to day and the predictions are the records will be broken again week on week. BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #625355 4th Mar 2022 7:29pm
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TDV8_Tommy



Member Since: 20 Feb 2019
Location: Pinoso, Valencia
Posts: 286

Spain 2012 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Baltic Blue

€1.58 locally, I had ~150 Kim’s range when I filled up, still came to €120. Normally I don’t look at fuel costs…don’t need to as I work from home. But this week it got my attention! A full tank will last around a month or more.

It’s odd, our electricity has come down in price! But gas bottles and fuel (cooking & supplemental heat) have shot up.

Seriously time to go solar and get a Renault Zoe for a sun-fuelled car. 2012 4.4 TDV8 Westminster - Baltic Blue, Jet interior, 20" Shadow Autobiography alloys.
1997 P38 2.5 DSE auto - LHD - ex -workhorse, now being restored.
1988 Vogue 3.5 EFI - Manual, gone.
2004 Volvo C70 2.0T convertible, had since new.
2007 Mazda MX-5 2.0 Sport Roadster/Coupé, had since new.

Post #625357 4th Mar 2022 7:38pm
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supershuttle



Member Since: 20 Mar 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3421

England 2013 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Luxor

Like most on here I could easily afford an electric vehicle, perhaps if I had one I would simply focus on how many miles I get per KW and how many charging stations there are (some even free - yippee) but I don’t have a Range Rover because it’s cheap I have it because I like it Geoff

Last edited by supershuttle on 5th Mar 2022 8:58am. Edited 1 time in total

Post #625358 4th Mar 2022 7:38pm
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