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bozmandb9

Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

LPG Supercharged Update

Well three months on, and I'm still loving the S/C on LPG, but still having some issues. It seems that the kit I've had fitted just can't deal with the S/C under full power, and this is something I want to get right.

I've taken it back several times to the converter, and they've not fitted a second condensor, but still the underfuelling persists, so now they're taking off the Lovato kit, and replacing it with a BRC kit, which they've successfully fitted to other S/C's (at their expense), so hopefully I'll then be totally happy with my conversion.

Out of interest, now we have a couple of S/C's with LPG on the forum, which kits do you other guys have? Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

14th Jun 2011 10:08pm

CG-SC

Member Since: 06 May 2011
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 528

2006 Range Rover Autobiography Supercharged Zambezi Silver

My car has the Emer kit fitted - it has the ECU that monitors the petrol ECU's fuel trims and makes minor adjustments as necessary - it seems to handle the power OK and hasn't brought any management lights on yet (fingers crossed)

The only issue that I am having is the coolant problem when the temperature gauge drops and the viscous fan kicks in....see my post here: http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic6127.html I'm not sure that this is related to the LPG though as I've read on this forum that ngb13 and 44ark had similar issues - I have tried contacting them without success

The only other issue is that when the LPG gets low and you use all the available acceleration of the Supercharged, the low level alarm sounds and the car switches back to petrol (due to the tank pick up not being at the back of the tank because there was no room to fit it that way. This only happens when I'm nearly out of LPG though.... Stolen / Gone: 2006MY Supercharged LPG Autobiography - Zambezi Silver with Sand/Jet/Jet Oxford Leather.....

14th Jun 2011 11:26pm

Alistair

Member Since: 11 Feb 2011
Location: Peterborough / Bordeaux / Andorra
Posts: 7764

2013 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

May not be what you want to hear but you should read this

http://www.jeengineering.co.uk/products/lpg-conversions.html

15th Jun 2011 8:54pm

bozmandb9

Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

Alistair wrote:
May not be what you want to hear but you should read this

http://www.jeengineering.co.uk/products/lpg-conversions.html

No worries, seen it all before. There seem to be a lot of cars with these engines running around on LPG without the benefit of the £1,400 (plus £1k fitting), hardened heads from JE! I'm sure they sell a few though. But there are now so many Range Rovers, Range Rover Sport, Jaguar XKR's etc all running on the same engine, LPG converted, and personally I've never read a direct report from anybody who has suffered valve seat recession.

Plenty of problems with fuel trim, however i think mostly down to systems unable to deal with 400 bhp, as my Lovato system. I'm looking forward to getting it back with a BRC system with much better condensors and injectors, well able to deal with the power! Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

15th Jun 2011 11:47pm

Vogue

Member Since: 31 Jan 2008
Location: on the hill
Posts: 3692

I don't think JE have drempt the issue up as it has cost them quite a few LPG conversions, several of my friends considered the LPG route and were going to go ahead with it. The issue with valve seats was the deciding factor not to go ahead - simply because the additional costs with head work negated sufficient returns to warrant the expenditure.

Knowing how JE operate, their good reputation and long standing links with LR, I am sure that they have the best of intentions of their customers at heart and do not want failures cropping up at a later date which would be attributed to an LPG conversion.

Otherwise they would just get on and do the LPG conversion as they have with other engines

16th Jun 2011 10:49am

bozmandb9

Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

Vogue wrote:
I don't think JE have drempt the issue up as it has cost them quite a few LPG conversions, several of my friends considered the LPG route and were going to go ahead with it. The issue with valve seats was the deciding factor not to go ahead - simply because the additional costs with head work negated sufficient returns to warrant the expenditure.

Knowing how JE operate, their good reputation and long standing links with LR, I am sure that they have the best of intentions of their customers at heart and do not want failures cropping up at a later date which would be attributed to an LPG conversion.

Otherwise they would just get on and do the LPG conversion as they have with other engines

Sure, as i said, I don't doubt their best intentions as I said, but has anybody got direct experience of engine trouble as a result of valve seat recession? There are many converted AJV8 engines out there without the JE heads! Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

16th Jun 2011 1:13pm

Philip

Member Since: 05 Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2516

2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aintree Green

Do you use Flashlube or similar?

Presumably JE think that it isn't sufficient for the AJV8.

16th Jun 2011 1:24pm

bozmandb9

Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

Trommel wrote:
Do you use Flashlube or similar?

Presumably JE think that it isn't sufficient for the AJV8.

Yes, flashlube, and yes, JE say it's not enough. But again, with quite a few converted cars around it would be interesting to get some real stats on how many have suffered damage as a result of VSR, with or without flashlube.

My suspicion is that early conversions were just not well done when convertors didn't know the engine well, and now they are doing the conversions much better with better knowledge of the engine. I may be wrong though, in which case I'll end up with a knackered engine! Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

16th Jun 2011 3:52pm

Gazellio @ Prestige Cars

Member Since: 22 Jan 2010
Location: Chilterns, UK
Posts: 11309

Sorry to be negative but it does sound like the problems you and others are having (and where warned would have) are not worth the saving in fuel based on the up front cost of conversion and the worry/hassle of getting it to work perfectly (As SC should) with the knowledge in the back of your mind that the head may just fail at any time...

The SC is a beautiful beast and IMHO opinion should be left unmolested

16th Jun 2011 3:57pm

Polux

Member Since: 02 Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 242

2005 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 V8 Monte Carlo Blue

i have no idea what all the fuss is about with sc, my installer autotech installs about 5x sc every week with the prins vsi lpg system and gets no issues, well the only issue is getting the dam supercharger (dam fiddly) out of the enegine bay to fit the system.

the only lpg system i would ever recommmend is the prins vsi

17th Jun 2011 11:13am

bozmandb9

Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

Gazellio wrote:
Sorry to be negative but it does sound like the problems you and others are having (and where warned would have) are not worth the saving in fuel based on the up front cost of conversion and the worry/hassle of getting it to work perfectly (As SC should) with the knowledge in the back of your mind that the head may just fail at any time...

The SC is a beautiful beast and IMHO opinion should be left unmolested

Gary, as I said, does anybody actually know of a car with a head that has failed due to an LPG conversion? and I'm not talking friend of a friend who read about it on the internet!

I'm quite happy with mine, to be honest it would have been fine as it was, but I wanted to be able to use the full 400bhp on gas, so I'm delighted that the installation is being upgraded at no cost to me.

As for S/Cs working perfectly without LPG, does this really describe any RR? I would say mine with LPG works at least as well as most, as we know, we may love our RR's, but to expect them to work perfectly all the time seems to be too much to ask even brand new from the showroom! Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

17th Jun 2011 12:14pm

Gazellio @ Prestige Cars

Member Since: 22 Jan 2010
Location: Chilterns, UK
Posts: 11309

Its a personal choice but as a dealer I would never recommend an SC conversion to a client whereas I would be comfortable recommending V8 conversion.

Everybody has the right to change their car in anyway that they wish but the forum must have a right to reply with whatever opinion posters may have on the subject.

There are lot of people with a great deal of respect for JE Engineering and take it for read that if they say the SC is not suitable without the hardened head then they are probably saying that from experience of which they undoubtedly have a lot of.

I truly hope that your conversion gives you many years of driving pleasure but I would have more faith in your converter had they recommended the Prins VSI system.

17th Jun 2011 12:43pm

BigJ

Member Since: 16 Mar 2011
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 247

2005 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Stornoway Grey

The problem with the supercharged engine is the poxy Denso (Read Japanese) ecu. Which causes problems.

The only kits that will work with these are the Prins and the BRC systems without constant fault codes.

In all honesty, the only 2 kits I would use. Used to have:
2005 FFRR 4.4 Vogue - BRC LPG Conversion & Remapped

Now have:
2008 SSRR 3.6 TDV8 - HSE and plenty of toys

17th Jun 2011 1:56pm

bozmandb9

Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Posts: 1020

BigJ wrote:
The problem with the supercharged engine is the poxy Denso (Read Japanese) ecu. Which causes problems.

The only kits that will work with these are the Prins and the BRC systems without constant fault codes.

In all honesty, the only 2 kits I would use.

Thanks BigJ, that's great news since I have a new BRC kit going on right now! Range Rover-less at the moment - Pining!

17th Jun 2011 2:06pm

Phil.

Member Since: 19 Apr 2010
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 771

2019 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

bozmandb9 wrote:
I said, does anybody actually know of a car with a head that has failed due to an LPG conversion? and I'm not talking friend of a friend who read about it on the internet!

Mine did. I told you in an earlier post on here when you bought yours and told you about the high power issues plus plenty of others. Mine spent half its life at JE trying to sort all the 'niggles'.

I wouldn't do it again even if all the 'niggles' were sorted (and you can't sort the low fuel emergency swap over niggle) because its such a pain having to find a LPG station and fill up every 200ish miles. I did have a sat nav with LPG stations listed but you often pull off your route only to find the station no longer has LPG. A lot of the branded stations are removing LPG because they are not turning over enough volume to make money. I did 36k miles in less than 18 months so often filling up 3 times a day [e.g. 2 x 200 miles and then need it full for the next day] that's at least 30mins wasted time a day compared with a full tank of diesel.

If you're not doing those sort of miles then it will take forever to pay for itself and makes the whole reason for doing it in the first place void. I broke even on mine financially before I got rid and should have spent the LPG saving on petrol and enjoyed it far more than I did. Now I have a TDV8 and the day-to-day performance isn't much different to the S/C, long run mpg is about 30% better than my S/C and the performance could be improved with a £300 re-map if I was inclined.

Here's a challenge for you. When you decide to sell please tell us (1) if you broke even financially and (2) if you would do it again with a S/C, honestly.

At the end of the day its a personal choice. I did it and learned a lot but let's not kid ourselves about the issues and compromises involved with converting and running a S/C on LPG.

18th Jun 2011 7:13pm

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