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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1260

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

EV's produce very little brake dust, they use regenerative braking. My i3 is still on it's original pads and disks, 77,000 miles and still nowhere near worn out.
I know the grid isnt totally green, most EV jockeys use green power tariffs though such as Octopus GO. The roadside chargers again are usually fed from green providers. BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #637666 23rd Jul 2022 7:47pm
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Robert



Member Since: 25 Oct 2011
Location: Perigueux
Posts: 2254

France 2007 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zambezi Silver

well most older diesels are banned in the bigger city. Anything passed euro 4 is in discussion or banned allready. Diesel is more expensive as petrol and may follow the price of tabaco. Both must be banned if you ask me, but you don't....and people that tell you that production or destruction of batteries for E-cars is not harmful or destructive for the planet or the people working in the mines, are just brainwashed by the MSM.

Here in France they are now voting for legalising frying oil as fuel...

obviously nobody wants to talk about hydrogen....not enough profit to make

back to the original question, just buy a 5.0 and sell your diesel now it's stil worth something
Anyway enjoy your FFRRmiles

Post #637677 23rd Jul 2022 8:36pm
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Andy S



Member Since: 16 Jun 2013
Location: Sevenoaks
Posts: 854

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Aintree Green

I don’t doubt that you and other ‘ev jockeys’ are on green tariffs, but electricity in this country is supplied by a grid, which you acknowledge is not green, so not all the juice going into EVs can be green, no matter who the provider is.

Post #637678 23rd Jul 2022 8:44pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1260

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

If Octopus generate 1MWh of green energy and their customers use 1MWh, the Octopus customers have used green electricity. The grid doesn't supply electricity, it isnt a storage medium its a transport system, what goes in at one end comes out at the other travelling at the speed of light. BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #637687 24th Jul 2022 3:20am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 1296

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

EV’s are not 100% green and no one is claiming this. Pollution from petrol and diesel engines is a measurable and serious health issue specifically in cities. EV’s are currently a good but not perfect solution to this. If there is a conspiracy then it’s been well documented how automotive manufacturers and fossil fuel companies have spent billions in lobbying and PR to deny both climate change and harm from vehicle emissions. I’ve yet to see evidence of a conspiracy (or how such a conspiracy would work ) to move to EV’s as a way of making more money and currently the leader in EV’s is not even a traditional automotive manufacturer. Remember that the first successful car makers were not the same people making carts and carriages for horses. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #637691 24th Jul 2022 6:17am
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supershuttle



Member Since: 20 Mar 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3421

England 2013 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Luxor

I'm on another couple of forums (cycling related) and the way to fill pages and pages is to start a helmet debate, they are compulsory in some countries but not here, there are those that like them and those that don't. The silent majority, of which I am a member, tend not to get involved and leave it to those with strong opinions to air them. We just get on with riding our bikes, in the same way I'll just get on with driving my car (yes its a diesel so once again I find myself in the silent majority) Very Happy Geoff

Post #637693 24th Jul 2022 7:31am
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JMC



Member Since: 01 Feb 2009
Location: Aberdeen-Angus
Posts: 531

Scotland 2012 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Orkney Grey

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:
2) Batteries are not a problem and can be recycled safely.

Wow! Such a sweeping statement which is just as dangerous as some of those spouted by climate deniers! Shocked

With respect, perhaps you should look into Lithium mining methodology the world over. Check out Cobalt mining at the same time. It takes about half a million gallons of water to produce a ton of lithium. This is often done in regions of the world where water is scarce. But hey, thirsty people shouldn't stand in the way of progress.

The Congo is reckoned to have half of the worlds Cobalt stocks. Child labour is rife and PPE non existant. But hey, these aren't our kids with birth defects and breathing issues, so what's the problem?

As they stand, EV's are not the answer to the world's problems - they are merely a stepping stone. Hybrid vehicles are the worst of both worlds too.

EV's are like the cassette tapes of the motoring world - A 'revolution' which will be superceded several times within decades. When all is said and done, people will still enjoy vinyl LP's! Wink The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom Smile

Post #637695 24th Jul 2022 8:02am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 1296

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Lithium batteries are used in lots of things - mobile phones, laptops, cameras, e-scooters etc so if anyone is against EV cars presumably they should also disown these things as well? Battery tech at some point will move on from lithium and use more sustainable and ethical raw materials. Like it or not EV's are the future but just not in their present state of development and Petrol and Diesel is in it's end game. I can see some devotees of certain high revving multi cylinder performance petrol engines missing their power delivery and sound but what's to like about a diesel apart from the low down torque which EV's are even better at delivering. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #637702 24th Jul 2022 9:57am
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JMC



Member Since: 01 Feb 2009
Location: Aberdeen-Angus
Posts: 531

Scotland 2012 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Orkney Grey

00.001Kg of Lithium in an iPhone.

10.000Kg of Lithium in a Tesla battery.

I'm not against EV's in any way. I'm against mis-information and the apparent smugness that goes with EV's. They are not Green in any way, shape, or form. They are just another excuse to greenwash global consumerism. Whistle The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom Smile

Post #637706 24th Jul 2022 10:08am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 1296

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Like many problems the solution is not perfect or without other consequences. We can’t just keep on with petrol and diesel just because there is no 100% safe and green alternative. We have a very real problem in urban areas that needs fixing. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #637707 24th Jul 2022 10:22am
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supershuttle



Member Since: 20 Mar 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3421

England 2013 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Luxor

Is this a bit like smoking? Banned pretty much everywhere, dire warnings on the packets, price hikes and additional load on the NHS but it continues (it may even be on the increase) - could it be anything to do with the money raised from tax etc Whistle I did a bit of work on the original congestion charging, it was successful in reducing journeys etc , but by then London was dependent on the money so they just put the price up, I'm not involved at all now but I do wonder where the new ULEZ money will go and where revenue will come from when we are all driving EVs Geoff

Post #637720 24th Jul 2022 11:29am
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Baltic Blue



Member Since: 13 Aug 2015
Location: North Wales
Posts: 3466

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Baltic Blue

X £/ mile with ANPR cameras on ever lamppost.
Easy, when they need more money they just up it to 2X etc etc.
Mike. G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic56162...tty+affair

Post #637723 24th Jul 2022 11:48am
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1260

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

JMC wrote:
AJGalaxy2012 wrote:
2) Batteries are not a problem and can be recycled safely.

Wow! Such a sweeping statement which is just as dangerous as some of those spouted by climate deniers! Shocked

With respect, perhaps you should look into Lithium mining methodology the world over. Check out Cobalt mining at the same time. It takes about half a million gallons of water to produce a ton of lithium. This is often done in regions of the world where water is scarce. But hey, thirsty people shouldn't stand in the way of progress.


With respect, perhaps you should do a little more research

Take a look here 06:26



[QUOTE]

The Congo is reckoned to have half of the worlds Cobalt stocks. Child labour is rife and PPE non existant. But hey, these aren't our kids with birth defects and breathing issues, so what's the problem?
[/QUOTE

7% of cobalt mined is used for oil refining, 41% is used for batteries (not just EV), 4% used in tyres. Perhaps you can tell me why youre really so troubled now whereas before seemingly happy with cobalt used for other things including fuel and tyres?




At least the Cobalt in the battery remains in the battery for the life of the car and beyond. Once a battery is at end of life in a vehicle they get re used into domestic energy storage. 6 years of fuel use will have equalled EV cobalt use, EV batteries last a lot longer than 6 years so, you as an ICE driver use more Cobalt than me!

Quote:

As they stand, EV's are not the answer to the world's problems - they are merely a stepping stone.

Theyre a dammed good attempt though, remeber ICE development and refinement well over 100 years compared to EV about 20 years, it's still in it's infancy.

Quote:

Hybrid vehicles are the worst of both worlds too.

Well it's horses for courses, plug in hybrid has it's uses, non plug in is pointless.

Quote:

EV's are like the cassette tapes of the motoring world - A 'revolution' which will be superceded several times within decades. When all is said and done, people will still enjoy vinyl LP's! Wink

Well I could agree with you there but then we'd both be wrong Rolling with laughter BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #637732 24th Jul 2022 1:40pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1260

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

JMC wrote:
00.001Kg of Lithium in an iPhone.

10.000Kg of Lithium in a Tesla battery.

True and a lot used in creating the fuel in your tank

Quote:

I'm not against EV's in any way.

Youre not hiding it well Very Happy

Quote:

I'm against mis-information and the apparent smugness that goes with EV's.

You will be keen to read up on the pollution aspects with information I gave you earlier in this thread then, lots of info in the video that shows the true picture.

Quote:

They are not Green in any way, shape, or form.

Really, I thought you said you were against mis information?

Okay, my car car BMWi3 is made from recycled materials in a factory that uses on site green energy to produce a car that can be recycled.

TESLA use a lot of recycled aluminium in their bodywork and again use green techniques to manufacture

So in what way are they not green in any way shape of form?

Quote:

They are just another excuse to greenwash global consumerism. Whistle


W R O N G Ner Ner Ner Ner BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #637733 24th Jul 2022 1:49pm
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supershuttle



Member Since: 20 Mar 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3421

England 2013 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Luxor

 Geoff

Post #637742 24th Jul 2022 3:15pm
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