SamThomas wrote:

I would not factor in zero road tax (it's called that on the .gov website) because as the chief beancounter in no11 sees a serious shortfall that will go.

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Certainly electric makes sense at the moment, but what if the costs of electricity goes up 10 fold & fossil fuels remain the same because there is less demand because so many have gone electric ?

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Oil will still be extracted - after all, where will all the plastics come from otherwise.

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& what happens if they (as in the experts) have got it wrong again ?
the experts cant win, if they dont say anything it would be 'You should have warned us', If they do share their thoughts and expertise and then the outcome is different ..........

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Nuclear Power (in the 30/70's) - "electricity too cheap to meter".

And that pretty well is true about nuclear energy

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North Sea Oil - "we will have the best, roads, transport, schools, healthcare".

Cant blame them they tried, hindsight is always 20:20 vision.

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Diesel cars - we all know about that one from the 80's.

Diesel engines really did develop into quite amazing power plants

Very uncertain times ahead.

Picking up a couple of things.

Diesel has been demonised, as expressed many times particulates on the new cars are extremely low.


Electricity price : my experience on price . There are regional differences and the electricity companies don’t always use a cap.
Cheapest is not to spread the bill over 12 equal payments, as that then becomes a plan , not a cap… , Just pay whatever you use in a month. Took me four months to extract that info from my supplier EDF .

2021 summer. £0.16 per kWh
2021 autumn. Plus/ minus 0.22 per kWh
2022 spring 0.31 ish per kWh
2022. July Two year fix 0.35 per kWh Cap until sept was about 0.28 ish ( note difference tween cap & 0.31)
2022 August quote for mother in law 0.55 per kWh for one year
Autumn 2022 cap anticipate 0.49 per kWh
January 2023 cap anticipate 0.59 per kWh

The two anticipated prices are worked out using the so called average household usage which is around 7,200 kWh per annum. So plus/minus figures.

Pay back on solar is 3-4 years,

Can the OP plug the car into solar during the day? Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Paul J. wrote:

Once you go down the EV route, you won’t go back to ICE.

 l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:

We are looking to change the PHEV to the new MGZ5 estate but we cant test / view one until December. It looks a smart well engineered car, good tech and being Chinese will be reliable. Starting price of around £26k and range of 270 miles.

I talked to a chap Friday at a supercharger: he reckons he saved +20.000 in the least 4 years/100.000 miles on fuel alone, taking into account the cost of the electricity he paid.

+0 BIK, 0road tax etc.

I also talked to a chap in a new Model 3 and same thing, for professionals the car pays for itself very quickly.

that's on top of the bonus of not burning fossil fuel and emitting nasties.  l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Go EV you won’t look back!

My first one was the ipace. Can’t tell you how good it was and how much I loved it. It was the wife’s daily though and I only got to play evenings and weekends for dad taxi duties.

My daily is a D4 commercial (5 seat conversion with all the toys) so it made no sense once covid was over to have the Jaaaag using up so much monthly when it just sat at the wife’s work.

Sold it at a profit (long story) and we now have a Kia Niro for family duties/run around etc. Cannot fault it. Such a good car. Does 280 to a full charge (Jag was 200) has loads of go and does everything we need.

Even today…. An 80 mile journey in my D4 is just under £30 in diesel. The same journey in the Niro… just over one pound!
Look up intelligent octopus or octopus GO for a good EV tarif.

Am I missing something with the EV tariffs or is it just EV applying a bit of man maths?

I pay c28p per kw/h and I looked at Octopus, 7.4p for 4 hours a day, so far so good. However, the rate outside that, which I would definitely need several time a week for charging a car, then there’s all the other usage…is 39.35. It’s an estimate, but I’m fairly sure that would make it more expensive overall than sticking with my current rate for everything based on our usage.

Assuming the efficiency is 3.5 to 4 miles per kWh (won’t be getting that from a FFRR EV on the motorway!), the cost per mile is 7-8p and double that charging away from home.

Looking at the figures in the last post my car would cost £22 for 80 miles at 186p/litre (so the D4 is horrendous!) and an electric car could be about £6. A decent saving for sure, but 600% more expensive than S60R quotes and as fuel (maybe) comes down a bit and electric goes up the gap will close.

All rough figures. I haven’t looked into it in too much detail as I’m not really interested in going electric. It would work for my wife in terms of range, but even so I’m not convinced it would be a big saving, even though she can get one at half price through a salary sacrifice scheme. MY23 Panamera E-Hybrid
MY19 SDV8 Autobiography - Sold

Yes its not as good as it was 6 months ago for sure!

I only ever charge in the cheap period. The charger is set up for the 4 hour window every night and won't operate outside of that (unless wanted of course).

I pay 5.5p inc vat per kWh at those times. For the current car I can reclaim 35% of the battery every night at an average cost of 1.40 nightly. It adds around 29kwh on a 7kw charger in those 4 hours (on average).


The (fixed) current octopus GO rates are about to expire and will go to 7.4p per hour making my nightly charge £2.15......and I'm sure the rises haven't finished yet either sadly.


YES! The D4 is hideous on fuel for my usage.... I average 25mpg across the last 10k miles using a fuel app to calculate brim to brim usage.
The last fill I did was 1.999 per litre (was 209.9 prior to that) and that will get me circa 25 miles for each 10 quid spend!

The EV (even with the new extortionate 7.5p rate) will be around 54 pence for the same 25 miles. So its 30 quid or £1.50 in the EV for the current 75 mile round trip to work.


I guess it totally comes down to your own usage.... but diesel is finished for us sadly....as I love the D4.

If you charge at home and your usage fits the EV is still the way forward..

Martin2 wrote:

Am I missing something with the EV tariffs or is it just EV applying a bit of man maths?

All rough figures. I haven’t looked into it in too much detail as I’m not really interested in going electric. It would work for my wife in terms of range, but even so I’m not convinced it would be a big saving, even though she can get one at half price through a salary sacrifice scheme.

There is also the alternative to retro EV drivetrains to older cars, including classic LRs and Defenders. Unfortunately, L322s are not there yet, and I have been asking around for the last two years to most specialists.
L322s are too modern and a niche market for them now. But it will happen.

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/ l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

verydisco wrote:

Martin2 wrote:

Am I missing something with the EV tariffs or is it just EV applying a bit of man maths?

All rough figures. I haven’t looked into it in too much detail as I’m not really interested in going electric. It would work for my wife in terms of range, but even so I’m not convinced it would be a big saving, even though she can get one at half price through a salary sacrifice scheme.

Very rough figures, but take into account BIK (if applicable), no road tax, very limited if not no service at all, etc.
You can also add solar to your house or even better solar+energy storage, then the kWh is very very cheap.

With the mad price rises in electric ( someone making some cash there) I'm struggling to justify the price gap between the current 4.4 and an EV.

I don't do many miles (joys of retirement) and my thoughts are that the current £53 road tax I pay every month should be more than enough for the monthly electric for the EV. Hmmmmmmm.

Just looked at Octopus go. 40p a unit daytime (currently paying 26p) standing charges are roughly the same, then of course the discount rate bet 00:30 and 04:30. Trying to discover the Ovo rates for their Ovo Drive is proving to be a bit tricky. Headline rate is 5p Kwh between midnight and 05:00 it seems, but cannot confirm this. Understandably Ovo customer service is very busy.

Try intelligent octopus…..

It’s 6 hours cheap rate per night. It’s on beta testing in my area but so was octopus GO when I took it up and it worked perfectly.


I want to change my D4 for a 5 supercharged ffrr (L322) but the taxation is really putting me off. We haven’t ever used £53 of electricity in a month. We have covered 9000 miles in the 8 months since changing the ipace for the Kia and the average spend is 28 pounds monthly.

Very crude man maths again… real world cost per mile is around 2,5p charging at home at all times.

I will look into solar I think….but we are about to go into the months when solar doesn’t give an awful lot!

Anyway…. Take all this aside.

Most of us I’m sure don’t buy cars with entirely the brain. None of us would be in a Land Rover product if we did!

The OP’s original question was about taking the plunge to EV……. My advice would be to go and drive one…..once you do none of the man maths will really matter anyway!

I drove the ipace for less than a mile and knew I had to have it! Lol


I’m sure a Taycan will blow your socks off….. go drive one as soon as you can.



Ps even the “crappy’ by comparison Niro is a genuinely entertaining thing to drive. It shocks everyone who gets in it albeit not in the way the Jag did.lol

Went out for drive in a friends new MG ZS yesterday. I was quite surprised how nice the interior was, and the level of toys etc. Also very comfie place to sit, I was impressed with it.