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Dartanjang



Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Vasteras
Posts: 12

Sweden 2015 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Carpathian Grey
Do or don’t - opportunity or not

So having owned a D4 for several years, it’s time to move to more comfort. I have three dogs so the RRS is not an option, I need the load space.

There is this MY2015 FFRR w 122150 km:s on the clock on auction that will probably sell well below market price, perhaps more than 10 kEUR lower. Very well equipped and in decent shape.

The catch? The last service was in January 2019 at 79000 km:s.

What to do? Buy, make two or three early oil changes and keep fingers crossed or just walk away? Oh, did I mention it’s a TDV6…

Post #649945 5th Dec 2022 9:32pm
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Gremlin500



Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1190

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Corris Grey

On Pistonheads, we’d call that a “Brave Pill”.
It’s a hard one to swallow unless it’s more like 20K below book, and even then……
The fact that it’s a TDV6 means little really, but it’s going to need a lot of TLC service-wise and possibly a chunk of money spent somewhere along the line, plus 2015 is in the realm of front knuckle joint failure too. I’d walk, and spend more money on something with a solid history.

There’s no such thing as a “bargain” FFRR. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Post #649948 5th Dec 2022 9:58pm
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SamThomas



Member Since: 12 Nov 2021
Location: South East
Posts: 293

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Baltic Blue

I would not think that a FFRR has any more load space than a RRS, especially when compared to a Discovery.

If you take a punt you may be lucky, but personally, I would walk away.

Post #649965 6th Dec 2022 9:34am
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cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 692

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Causeway Grey

It's worth looking into TDV6 crankshaft failure problems before spending your cash

Post #649995 6th Dec 2022 3:10pm
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Gremlin500



Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1190

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Corris Grey

@cass:

There’s a survey on here that proves it’s an internet myth, most are trouble-free. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Post #650003 6th Dec 2022 4:31pm
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pld118



Member Since: 25 Mar 2013
Location: Bairns
Posts: 4218

Scotland 2014 Range Rover Vogue SDV6 Santorini Black

👍Gremlin500…

Post #650008 6th Dec 2022 5:33pm
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knwatkins



Member Since: 11 Sep 2020
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 734

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Corris Grey

An internet myth? I'm afraid to say, that's completely wrong.

It's happened to me with my TDV6!

Here's a photo I took of a bunch of crankshafts under a bench all from S/TDV6 (306DT) engines from the guys that rebuilt mine....

Click image to enlarge


There is plenty of evidence all over the web and on the other LR owner forums about the issues with this engine, especially on the D4 forum as pretty much all D4s on the road in the UK run the 306DT. Kev

2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

Post #650025 6th Dec 2022 6:57pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

Some ≠ most
How many cranks have failed?
How many were produced?

I will say the correct specification of engine oil makes a huge difference to the longevity of any engine and especially the 3.0l TDV6

Post #650027 6th Dec 2022 7:06pm
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knwatkins



Member Since: 11 Sep 2020
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 734

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Corris Grey

Absolutely. I don't believe anyone is claiming 'most'? The risk is low considering the number of cars on the road. However, branding it as an 'internet myth' is completely inaccurate. It is real risk and trust me, it isn't nice when it happens to you.

When I bought mine, I knew about the issue and I always thought "I'll be fine, I'm buying a good example, fully serviced by main agents and reputable independents". Unfortunately this was not to be the case.

Many vehicles which have been cared for by enthusiasts with tender loving care using correct specification fluids have failed for no apparent reason.

It has been known for this engine to fail when vehicles have been reversed off the transporter at the main dealers when new.

PS. I used to be of the opinion that the issue would be through lack of adequate servicing. It used to make me feel better and more confident in my own vehicle, until it happened to me... Kev

2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

Post #650029 6th Dec 2022 7:25pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

I've mentioned it before, maybe elsewhere TBH, not all dealers use the correct specification oil, grade, yes, specification - not always. That is from first-hand experience, not second-hand hearsay. Part of the specification of oil relates to the molecular size, that is essentially the distance the oil causes metal parts 'float' on other metal parts, get it wrong and there are issues.

Your example of engines failing coming off the transporter are not unusual - many vehicles have (very) early life failures, I saw one today where a transmission failed on a new vehicle that the customer had waited three months for, now waiting an indeterminate amount of time as the parts are on backorder and the brand I now work for won't do 'line pinch'.

Post #650030 6th Dec 2022 7:34pm
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knwatkins



Member Since: 11 Sep 2020
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 734

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Corris Grey

I don't doubt with anything you've said there Phoenix. I'm sure everything you have said there is true.

My point is, like all things in life, there is a risk. Like many other owners, I assessed the risk and took it. Unfortunately for me, I was one of the unlucky ones. Cest la vie. Kev

2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

Post #650031 6th Dec 2022 7:43pm
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Gremlin500



Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1190

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Corris Grey

@knwatkins:

“an internet myth” meaning a lot go bang at some point, which may not be true, we need statistics, like these:

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic54027...ft+failure

A picture of a pile of broken crankshafts is alarming, but how do we know which brand of vehicle let alone which engine they came from? Even so, that pile might represent a drop in the ocean, we just don’t know, one way or the other, and JLR aren’t going to give us the stats. Sorry for your misfortune but it may have affected your viewpoint slightly?

I’m not saying the engine is bombproof, and it may need an extra bit of TLC. It would be interesting to know the stats as to what % of engines failed and in which years and if its becoming more rare now that effects of dilution are better understood and modifications to bearing shells or other contributing factors have been made.

Perhaps we will never know Banging Head “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Post #650034 6th Dec 2022 8:00pm
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knwatkins



Member Since: 11 Sep 2020
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 734

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Corris Grey

Absolutely Gremlin, we will never know and I agree we need statistics to fully understand the risk.

Like you, I thought I understood the risk but let's face it - none of us do in the absence of the real numbers.

That picture of crankshafts are all from T/SDV6 engines, rebuilt over a period of around about 9 months. I took the picture myself. Kev

2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

Post #650037 6th Dec 2022 8:18pm
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mjdronfield



Member Since: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 7605

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

Either way, if you don’t want the worry get one with a different engine. It’s no good saying it’s this percentage or that percentage if you are worrying every time you drive it. It’s happened to some… that’s all folk need to hear sometimes, and I’m probably one of them… no good saying it only affects 5% for eg, if yours is one of the 5%. I know these things are not often widespread and that folk only tend to post stuff on the internet when somethings broken, but that’s no consolation when your car turns into a very expensive paper weight.

I skipped the 3.6 TDV8 for the same reason. Hundreds of thousands don’t have issues but knowing my luck 🤣….

Just my 2p…

Thumbs Up 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Post #650040 6th Dec 2022 8:21pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

knwatkins wrote:
I don't doubt with anything you've said there Phoenix. I'm sure everything you have said there is true.

My point is, like all things in life, there is a risk. Like many other owners, I assessed the risk and took it. Unfortunately for me, I was one of the unlucky ones. Cest la vie.

Whilst I don't believe in 'luck' as any bookie will tell you, there is an unmeasurable amount of 'chance' between one outcome or another, as any owner of the 5.0 Mustang built in the first couple of years will tell you - will the top end tick or not? there is no engineering reason for either outcome, just a combination of variances. Unfortunately similar variances didn't work out well for you, I'd love to see a Venn diagram of the failures, mileages, ages and other relevant measurements.
I can't help but think back to how many HA Disco 4's didn't have engine failures despite high mileages and operating circumstances outside of the 99th percentile, despite having sometimes two a day in for service or repairs, there wasn't one with crank or engine block concerns (a few leaky sumps though!) in all the time I was there.

Post #650041 6th Dec 2022 8:30pm
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