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Deputy



Member Since: 23 Nov 2021
Location: Maidenhead
Posts: 33

United Kingdom 2008 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Barolo Black

Ha.

Post #653202 10th Jan 2023 4:58pm
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SamThomas



Member Since: 12 Nov 2021
Location: South East
Posts: 293

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Baltic Blue

cass wrote:
AJGalaxy2012 wrote:
So we can disconnect the refrigerant pipes, disconnect the HV lines, disconnect the communications, take out a lot bolts, drop the battery down, take it away, lift the new battery into place, reconnect everything, regas the refrigerant all in under 5 minutes at a sensible price?

I can see some people who may have a battery that's approaching end of life using such a service, when they next have a good one just keeping that with the car.

I am familiar with FLT's and battery swapping from years ago, nothing the complexity in a FLT battery.


All minor issues with easy solutions, manufacturers already use masses of common components like engines, platforms, electrics etc. so making use of a common battery wont be an issue.
The concept of swapping batteries has many advantages compared to the shambles of the current public charging system.
It avoids the need to force feed batteries quickly and inefficiently with expensive fossil fuel generated power generating unwanted and damaging heat that wastes even more power to cool them.
Batteries will last longer if they're not getting unnecessarily heated up.
Batteries could be charged with surplus renewable power when there is little or no grid demand.
With a reliable means of "filling up" battery sizes could be reduced saving weight and improving efficiency.
A bank of charging batteries helps with the problem of what to do with surplus renewable power when there is little grid demand.
At a practical level, cost wouldn't be an issue, The odd time I've needed to plug into a public charger the price has been ludicrous.
Swapping a battery would be great if your home charging has failed unexpectedly with a power cut, trip swich, some scrote stealing your charging cable etc.
I don't suppose anyone will persue this now that we're on the path that we're on but that article that Archermav linked shows that someone is trying it.


In the very early days of EV's I envisaged the sort of system you describe but we seem to have abandoned that direction.

Taking it a step further battery packs could be a standard size - EV's could have space for more than one battery pack to increase range where needed & not be lugging excess weight around when not.

Just a pity more thought did not go into the whole situation/concept before the headlong rush we have now.

Post #653220 10th Jan 2023 7:15pm
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kevinp



Member Since: 28 Sep 2019
Location: Telford
Posts: 1105

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

How about you drive onto a forecourt over a covered pit.
A machine pops out the ground and removes the flat battery and sends it off for recharging.
A fully charged battery is then pushed up under the car and away you go.
How simple is that?
Obviously all batteries would have to be a standard size and cars would have to have the same receptacle and all the connections made the same. Thumbs Up

Post #653229 10th Jan 2023 8:10pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2570

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Such a system would work along the lines of an automatic carwash - drive through battery replacement! 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #653233 10th Jan 2023 8:57pm
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stan
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United Kingdom 

like this,

https://www.arenaev.com/nio_to_begin_rolli...s-1252.php ... - .- -.




click link for ,

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HOW TO Ǝꓕ∀ꓕOꓤ PICS

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.

Post #653265 11th Jan 2023 6:23am
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1446

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

kevinp wrote:
How about you drive onto a forecourt over a covered pit.
A machine pops out the ground and removes the flat battery and sends it off for recharging.
A fully charged battery is then pushed up under the car and away you go.
How simple is that?
Obviously all batteries would have to be a standard size and cars would have to have the same receptacle and all the connections made the same. Thumbs Up

It all seems good on paper and the theory is great, implementation and real world operation of such a system has many potential pitfalls. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #653267 11th Jan 2023 6:34am
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cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 692

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Causeway Grey

I don't think there are as many pitfalls as we have with the current system, you can never overestimate the stupidity of the general public, we live in a world where we have people who still manage to drive the wrong way up a motorway and there are thousands of cases of misfuelling every year where there are only 2 choices petrol or diesel. Is it a good idea to let the public within spitting distance of an 800V supply?
Can you picture the fuss when some "genius" blows himself up with 800V going though his home made adapter to speed up the charging on his car.
How many different cables/plugs/adapters/charging rates will we end up with to confuse some old dear who has left her glasses at home?
With 800V available you can be sure that some YouTube dimwit will come up with something stupid to created some "content"
On the plus side there may be some interesting CCTV footage where someone tries to steal an 800V charging cable.
Remove the people/public from the process and you will remove the pitfalls.

Post #653283 11th Jan 2023 12:20pm
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Weegie



Member Since: 09 Jun 2014
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 3186

Scotland 2008 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Stornoway Grey

It might improve the gene pool. Very Happy John
2008 Stornoway Grey 3.6 Tdv8 Vogue
2005 TD6 Java Black Vogue - Written off!!
GAP iiD BT
2003 Discovery TD5 Auto, Nanocom Evolution - gone to a new home!
MasseyFerguson 152 - No electronics!! - Sold

Post #653284 11th Jan 2023 12:36pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1446

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

cass wrote:
I don't think there are as many pitfalls as we have with the current system, you can never overestimate the stupidity of the general public, we live in a world where we have people who still manage to drive the wrong way up a motorway and there are thousands of cases of misfuelling every year where there are only 2 choices petrol or diesel. Is it a good idea to let the public within spitting distance of an 800V supply?
Can you picture the fuss when some "genius" blows himself up with 800V going though his home made adapter to speed up the charging on his car.
How many different cables/plugs/adapters/charging rates will we end up with to confuse some old dear who has left her glasses at home?
With 800V available you can be sure that some YouTube dimwit will come up with something stupid to created some "content"
On the plus side there may be some interesting CCTV footage where someone tries to steal an 800V charging cable.
Remove the people/public from the process and you will remove the pitfalls.

All of the charging equipment is designed to protect the user from their own stupidity, it's just about idiot proof, as always there will be exceptions.
In terms of pitfalls, consider active battery cooling. The battery would need to have some form of self sealing joint to retain the refrigerant. Consider having your battery swapped for another one who's vehicle had a failing AC compressor, the refrigerant lines being contaminated with brass and other metals. This now installed in your car, the refrigerant lines connected and all of you AC system now contaminated. The contamination will cause damage to your compressor and associated equipment. It would spread quicker than COVID amongst the users.
It's a good idea at first thought but then implementing it safely is another issue entirely. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #653285 11th Jan 2023 1:18pm
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kevinp



Member Since: 28 Sep 2019
Location: Telford
Posts: 1105

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

stan wrote:
like this,

https://www.arenaev.com/nio_to_begin_rolli...s-1252.php

That's it Stan, my millionaire idea has been nicked already!! Rolling with laughter

Post #653287 11th Jan 2023 1:37pm
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Gremlin500



Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1194

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Corris Grey

@Weegie:

Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter loved your remark! Thumbs Up “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Post #653289 11th Jan 2023 1:48pm
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cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 692

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Causeway Grey

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:

All of the charging equipment is designed to protect the user from their own stupidity, it's just about idiot proof, as always there will be exceptions.
In terms of pitfalls, consider active battery cooling. The battery would need to have some form of self sealing joint to retain the refrigerant. Consider having your battery swapped for another one who's vehicle had a failing AC compressor, the refrigerant lines being contaminated with brass and other metals. This now installed in your car, the refrigerant lines connected and all of you AC system now contaminated. The contamination will cause damage to your compressor and associated equipment. It would spread quicker than COVID amongst the users.
It's a good idea at first thought but then implementing it safely is another issue entirely.


I'm pretty sure that most EV batteries are glycol cooled so this would never be an issue and even if it was a real potential problem then the batteries could have their own cooling circuit which would connect to a heat exchanger in the car. I expect that is how most of them already work.
My point is that all of the perceived problems have very easy fixes and the current system just looks very "Betamax" to me

Post #653293 11th Jan 2023 2:46pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1446

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

The i3 is definitely actively cooled with refrigerant system and I believe most BMW EV's are too. I dont know about all the others.

It is a great idea, depending of course on the cost and complexity of operation. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #653295 11th Jan 2023 3:06pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

I hesitate to 'wake the beast' - this caught my eye, ignore the clickbait headline...
https://www.gbnews.uk/news/electric-car-wa...ope/426156

Quote:
The RAC said the average price of using rapid chargers on a pay as you go basis has increased by nearly 26p per kilowatt hour since May, reaching 70.3p per kWh this month.

This means drivers pay around 20p per mile for their electricity when using the chargers.

By contrast, the per mile cost for a petrol car achieving an economy of 40 miles to the gallon is just 17p

Post #653960 18th Jan 2023 9:54pm
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Gremlin500



Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1194

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Corris Grey

@Pheonix:

Interesting article there, and it’s not BS either. I have an ebike with a 21Ah battery using similar technology, and my range is only around 60% compared to Summer if the temperature drops to or below zero. To get around this, I foolishly keep my batteries stored at 20C in the house Shocked , although they are in an old steel ammo box with a pressure valve on a ceramic tiled floor Whistle “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Post #653967 18th Jan 2023 10:35pm
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