Theres a valid point.

Why are bankers still getting paid massively with their big bonus's ontop and the banks in huge profit and not being taxed silly amounts on it?? surely that would fill the coffers VERY quickly, and as we own a bank why dont we just set the rate on the massive debt to 0%?? surely this is the best way to repay the debt, even if we got it reduced for 3-4 years and then it was 1% over the normal rate for the same period this would allow us to pay it back quicker would it not and put is on a stronger footing while still allowing the banks to get the money back and get some better interest in the future?

Kingpleb, gotta check your facts, we're not a tiny country, we're the sixth largest economy in the world. We may have some financial/ economic pain at the moment, but you've got to keep some perspective, every day millions of people die, and our overseas aid budget is far from being excessive. If we cut that then, well it would just be so wrong. Would you fancy explaining to an African family who've lost 60% of their community to famine and disease that it's essential that we cut an aid project to their community because we're suffering in the recession? When your petrol bill for a week would probably keep a family for a couple of months?

As for forcing second home owners to sell them, well that's plain crazy, you're into the realms of fascist or communist states/ dictatorships, and you'd create a property price crash, which would hardly help the overall situation.

GregP, I agree, if you've worked for your pension, you should get it. Just as us in the private sector do. What you get, is what you paid in, plus any gains from investment.

Of course if you want to keep final pension salaries, the simple option would be to increase contributions to the level required to fund that sort of pension in the current economic climate, so you could probably safely bet that it would reduce your income by 20-80%, would that be OK? If not, why are you still insisting that you must get a pension which is disproportionate to your contributions, just because that's the way it used to be in the boom days which are now over? 2012 SDV8 Vogue SE

dazsear wrote:

Anyway we should all get into banking......get paid silly amounts, claim an even bigger anual bonus....bigger than most public sector workers will get as their salery.....make brave/stupid decisions with the money at work since its not yours......oh and if you do up with your decision making fear not since the public will bail you out! Even once you have been bailed out keep up with the bonus culture, you know it makes sense!

Failing that become a politition, claim for your multiple houses...earn a fortune and take back handers to line your nest egg.

I'd love to strike but I am a certain public sector worker that is not allowed to do so....hey ho I could always swap jobs and retrain 2/3rds into my career.

Daz

kingpleb wrote:

The root of the problem then is that workers have been paying into the scheme which has then been poorly managed and not made into a fund, correct?

Is this then the fault of the people who have trusted a gov system to do the best by them and manage the money they pay in correctly?

As above if someone had a 2nd, 3rd, or more homes and rented them out and were then forced to sell them and give some of that profit back to the gov to help new buyers get said houses, would that person or company be happy and take it? i think not, yet we have a massive house shortfall and new homes are just not being built quick enough and leaving many people without the choice of owning a home and facing high rental prices

Dom, you prob understand pensions better than me, it sounds as though you do. And I am sure what you say is correct. I never thought I would strike, and before all this happened I didn't really agree with it and tended to believe it doesn't really make much difference. However I truely believe the goverment are going the wrong way about making up this deficit. As usual they are penalising those that work the hardest and who "normally" conform to what they are told needs to happen. I have accepted pay cuts, I have accepted more pressure/stress at work due to lower budgets, I have accepted the cost of living going up for those that work the hardest and who generally keep the country going. Does anyone actually believe things will get easier when this deficit has gone?? Do people think they'll reduce taxes, gradually increase wages etc?? I don't. I think us in the middle will continue to get shafted while we do our best working hard and conforming while the rich will continue on their merry way (prob making more money out of the whole circus) and those that choose to sponge of the state will continue to do so. FFRR TD6 HSE
Adriatic Blue with Parchment leather.

kingpleb wrote:

The root of the problem then is that workers have been paying into the scheme which has then been poorly managed and not made into a fund, correct?

Is this then the fault of the people who have trusted a gov system to do the best by them and manage the money they pay in correctly?

As above if someone had a 2nd, 3rd, or more homes and rented them out and were then forced to sell them and give some of that profit back to the gov to help new buyers get said houses, would that person or company be happy and take it? i think not, yet we have a massive house shortfall and new homes are just not being built quick enough and leaving many people without the choice of owning a home and facing high rental prices

If you have half a brain in the private sector you just dont bother with a pension unless your employer match's so much of it. Better to stick the money into something else TBH.

Yes i do think we should see how much is spent in foriegn aid, the EU (what do we really get back from that?) and people coming into the country and sponging benefits as well as the current pool of people from within the country who have such a poor gene pool they sponge as well??

Im not saying foriegn aid should be cut entirely, jsut that we should stop throwing money at it and send troops in to do such jobs, we are paying their wages anyway, the kit is probably sat in an MOD depot gathering dust before being auctioned off and losing the country a small fortune. Therefore why not use it and the resources we have to help get the people back on their feet and rebuild such infrastructures to get them going?

Give a man some fish and he will eat for a few days.

Give a man a net and they have a means to eat for as long as the net lasts.

I know which option i'd rather this country do and in a pure business sense, sending money out is a poor ROI, sending people out to help others is a much better ROI.

OK then, here's a simple multiple choice question for all those being affected by the planned contributions hike. Would you rather: -

a) contribute more now and maintain your pension benefits in retirement,
or
b)keep your current contributions and draw a smaller pension when you retire,
or
c) keep your contriutions and draw a bigger pension, increasing the time it takes the country to get out of debt and leaving nothing for those poor unfortunate souls that happened to be born a few years after you

The pot is only so big. If you don't put in what you take out, it'll soon be empty and there'll be nothing for anybody. You can't have your cake and eat it. Pension reform has to happen at some point, and someone has to take the hit. Unfortunately it's happening now, but would you rather your kids faced it, along with all of the other hardships and uncertainties that will also have increased for the next generation???

Yes, the public sector pension contributions should have been managed differently and invested as a separate fund, but they weren't. Can't change that and there's no point crying over spilt milk.

If it's that bad, you could always get a job in the private sector and see how you get on there once you start moaning and whinging when you don't get what you want.

I pretty much agree with everything you just said. But the problem is, due to Gordon and Tony, the money to the EU is not exactly voluntary. Do you really think Dave is voluntarily giving them billions? He's not the biggest Euro-phile, we were sold down the river by Gordon, and his Darling, even after they were effectively out, they sold us out and guaranteed that we'd have to waste these billions on the EU.

As for those coming in and sponging, well unfortunately see above, it's down to the EU, we don't have control of our borders, or our benefits system (though apparently our government is going to sue to EU to try to get out of us having to support economic migrants, thank god).

Yes, you're right about not bothering with pensions in the private sector, post Labour, but guess what, that puts massively more pressure on the state pension system.

Maybe we can use resources rather than money in some circs, but most humanitarian crises need food and medicines, redundant puttees and burgens won't really save these people. Totally agree about help them to help themselves, but again generally this takes money.

I think you'll find especially with the current strain on our armed forces, there's no surplus capacity, and they can't replace our aid budget, but I totally agree that it MUST be spent wisely and to good effect.

But for anybody striking, and thinking what a nice guy Ed Milliband is lending his support, you must be mental. His lot caused this mess, and his solution is to borrow more, to put off the problem for a while, at the same time as we are seeing developed countries threatened with bankruptcy due to debt and structural economic problems (like spending more than you have). 2012 SDV8 Vogue SE

allycraven wrote:

...you could always get a job in the private sector and see how you get on there once you start moaning and whinging when you don't get what you want....

Quite right.  Graham

____
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TBh the EU is like the pensions, if they really wanted out they could.

We do control our borders( depending on who you speak to) and we can stop them if we wanted and be much more stringent in the controls on the borders as well. We do often deport people back to their home countries through the use of warrants and so forth as they use this country as an escape from being sent down.

Yes there are small things that do need money, but with other countries just chucking cash in, should we not set a trend to ensure that the money other countries put in is used to best effect? IE france/germany... put cash in, we put people in and they ensure its spent properly and gets the best utilisation.

They're not called the "Loony Left" for nothing, and don't get me started on the (nearly 3000!!!) full-time taxpayer-funded trade union officials (some of whom earn £100k+) who have no positive impact on the nations productivity and whose activities cost upwards of £100 million per year.

All I know is to obtain the same pension as a public sector employee, I'd need to pay in roughly 25% of my salary from the age of 25 till retirement, and that assumes the markets perform reasonably well and the annuity rates are good when(if...) i ever reach retirement age.

To ask someone to contribute 12% for 40 years to get 50% of there final pay guaranteed isn't really asking too much now is it?

dazsear wrote:

Anyway we should all get into banking......get paid silly amounts, claim an even bigger anual bonus....bigger than most public sector workers will get as their salery.....make brave/stupid decisions with the money at work since its not yours......oh and if you do up with your decision making fear not since the public will bail you out! Even once you have been bailed out keep up with the bonus culture, you know it makes sense!

Trommel wrote:

dazsear wrote:

Anyway we should all get into banking......get paid silly amounts, claim an even bigger anual bonus....bigger than most public sector workers will get as their salery.....make brave/stupid decisions with the money at work since its not yours......oh and if you do up with your decision making fear not since the public will bail you out! Even once you have been bailed out keep up with the bonus culture, you know it makes sense!

Can anyone seriously believe this? I suppose it helps explain who gives votes to Labour.

99% of bankers who get a decent bonus don't get a decent bonus if they fail to make enough money for their employer. No profit, no job.

The "public money" (which was nothing of the sort) went to useless retail banks. Not many "bankers" on huge bonuses there.

Trommel wrote:

dazsear wrote:

Anyway we should all get into banking......get paid silly amounts, claim an even bigger anual bonus....bigger than most public sector workers will get as their salery.....make brave/stupid decisions with the money at work since its not yours......oh and if you do up with your decision making fear not since the public will bail you out! Even once you have been bailed out keep up with the bonus culture, you know it makes sense!

Can anyone seriously believe this?

dazsear wrote:

So you think the bonus is ok for them and we should not tax this bonus in any way shape or form?
I seem to remember RBS dishing out some seriously large ones recently as a useless retail bank!

GregP wrote:

As usual they are penalising those that work the hardest and who "normally" conform to what they are told needs to happen. I have accepted pay cuts, I have accepted more pressure/stress at work due to lower budgets, I have accepted the cost of living going up for those that work the hardest and who generally keep the country going. Does anyone actually believe things will get easier when this deficit has gone?? Do people think they'll reduce taxes, gradually increase wages etc??