I have just had an interesting conversation after returning my RR VSE to the garage I bought it from for some warranty work

1. Heating and ventialtion system not blowing air to windscreen, (independent inspection suggested actuator motor failure). Second Hand Car Dealer said, didn't notice a problem when I drove it to the workshop, but we gave it a software update. Should I believe him that it is fixed?

2. PDC not working, giving continuous tone, (independent inspection suggested OSF center sensor faulty, OSR outer intermitant fault) Second Hand Car Dealer, that is not covered by your warranty, but I will fix it anyway

3. TPMS system advising all tyres need check even though at correct pressure (independent inspection, suggested all 5 valves and sensors should be replaced as they were heavily corroded and showing intermittant faults) Second hand car dealer says not covered by warranty and is not going to do anything about it as it is a comon problem 'read the internet, I could fix them and the warning could come back after 30 miles, the systems don't work'

When I bought the car I was told there are not electrical problems (a bit of a surprise, but for the price I would have expected them all to be fixed anyway).

I was also told as we were going through the controls, the yellow TPMS light that kept flashing was due to the wheels being off and the system was fine. Not a surprise the light was on as all the wheels were at different pressures (one of the fronts was at 45psi ) after resetting the pressures the warning was still there, so I think I can assume that there was a problem when I collected the vehicle that was not declared.

Do I believe a software update will fix the heating and do I accept his refusal to fix the TPMS? 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Andy

Sorry to hear that you are having issues with your car. Where did you buy it from? A landrover dealer?

If it was purchased through a franchised land rover dealer under the approved used landrover scheme I would push the dealership to rectify all faults no matter how minor, the cars are supposed to be prepared to a high standard and everything on them should work. If they appear reluctant escalate to the dealer principal explaining your position re the car not being at an acceptable level. If this gets you nowhere then the threat of escalating to Land Rover customer care should be motivating for them.

My car when I bought it was poorly prepared and it took multiple letters of complaint to the dealer principal before all my concerns were addressed/rectified and the car brought up to the standards laid out in the landrover approved used scheme.

Hope that you get everything resolved.

Simon

Last edited by simon1233 on 25th Jan 2012 5:43pm. Edited 1 time in total

Andy_J wrote:

Do I believe a software update will fix the heating and do I accept his refusal to fix the TPMS?

I wouldn't. In fact I would remind him of the contents of the Sale & Supply of Goods Act. it seems he told you that the problem with TPMS was only because the wheels had been off. So in other words, it works and just needs to re-learn the positions of the wheels, no?

So, the sensors do fail, at about 4-6 years old if my last 2 cars have been anything to go by. Not hugely expensive in themselves but every wheel needs the tyre off, change the valve, refit tyre and balance. I would demand that was paid by the dealer, or warranty. Or alternatively I would reject the vehicle.

So the heater. Easily tested - go check it out by setting the thing to blow on the screen. It will either work or it won't. If it doesn't, well that's another point to help reject the car.

The only language some of these a-hole car dealers understand is that of the law. Oh and the bit about warranty not covering stuff......BS. regardless of what cheap- warranty the dealer is selling, he has a legal obligation to provide 3 months warranty regardless of all other facts. And the facts say the thing is not fit for purpose. There is also the matter of him selling a warranty to cover items which are faulty at the time of sale.....that's called fraud.

So, would I accept his lame excuses? That'd be a "no" then

Good luck getting it all sorted. When they're on song, a RR really is a lovely place to be.

Dom.

I'd simply go back and reject it and tell them you won't take no for answer or the next step will be a solicitors as if you've paid XXXXX amount for a TDV8 VSE then EVEYRTHING should work! I paid £13k for mine knowing there was 1 fault with it and with the rest of the car being in good nick(touch wood)....

Dont take no for an answer, you paid his next few months of pay for it so it should all work!

Thanks for the support guys, I thought I was being strung a bit of a line.

I will stick to my guns and insist it is fixed properly.

The guy is not a francised dealer, but does only sell high end 4x4's BMW's and Audi's.

I think it is probably a little late for me to reject the vehicle as I have done 1,500 miles in it, but it may be a useful threat.

I sent him a recorded delivery letter on my way home from work, confirming the problems and a copy of my independent report, so he can't dispute the problems.

Think one of the issues I have is that the garage is 150 miles from me so if he doesn't fix anything properly I will have a long round trip for nothing (or for me to explain the details of SOGA '79 section 14 and its ammendments) 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Make him fix all problems as delivered. How long was warranty for. XXX months & XXX miles. So I would think you are still within your limits. If he doesn't fix it solicitors or small clame tribunal. Or FULL refund & tell min where to fit his car

Gary

Hi Andy,

Sorry to hear about the issues you are having. Can you explain if the independent inspection was a pre-purchase inspection or a post purchase inspection. Can you also state whether the independent assessor was a qualified member of the Institute of automotive engineers (IAEA) or an RAC / AA inspector, if so you already have quite a lot of weight behind your case.

If it was just another garage reporting on the issues for you their views and opinions would not stand up in court.

If a pre-purchase inspection was carried out and the results were intimated to the seller prior to the sale and he agreed to sort the faults he must do this. If you brought the faults to his attention prior to the sale and he did not agree to fix them it could be taken that you were aware of the faults prior to the sale.

If a post purchase inspection was carried out by a reputable inspector you will be in a strong position should you have to pursue remedy throught the courts.

Contary to popular opinion, it is virtually impossible to immediately reject a used vehicle unless the faults were specific conditions of the sale. i.e for example you paid for 2 litre car and a garage actually sold you a 1 litre car, or you stated the vehicle needed to accomodate a wheel chair and when delivered it didn't. The issues you are having are in fact known as warranties which means they are subsiduary and do not go directly to the root of the contract.

The dealer is entitled to be given the opportunity to repair the faults (which is what you have correctly done). If he does not repair the faults, you may be entitled to a claim for damages if the car is not up to spec.

I don't really see his issue, none of the faults are particulary difficult to sort, but there are two sides to every story.

Clarify some of the info above and forums memebers may be able to help even further.

Stephen

The independent inspection was carried out by my local Landrover dealer, as i wanted someone with expertise in these vehicles and the proper diagnostic equipment to provide the report. They were aware that I thought there was a problem with the PDC, TPMS (warning lights /sound anyway) and the heating and ventilation systems.

I agree that rejecting the car maybe a difficult option as I have done 1,500 miles and now had the car 2 months, I could very well have deemed to have accepted the vehicle. I think under scottish law if he refuses to repair the car I could recind the contract of sale and return the vehicle and get a refund less an amount to refelct the use I have made of the vehicle. Not a route i would want to go down as it would be long and drawn out. I would prefer to get the vehicle fixed.

I will see what happens this weekend as he told me he was aiming to have the car ready for me to pick up on Saturday 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Andy_J wrote:

I agree that rejecting the car maybe a difficult option as I have done 1,500 miles and now had the car 2 months

Re the heater, I had this problem with my new 4.4Tdv8 this time last year. Blower motor making lots of noise but only a dribble of air coming up the windscreen.
LR issued a fullblown download (takes a few hours at the main dealer) which dealt with things like the hesitant acceleration at around 70mph, but it also cured the ventilation problem. I think the old software was'nt telling a particular flap to open or something.
The dealership was surprised at the time as they had thought it was "normal" and that I was just trying to find something to moan about! It was only when I got one of the guys on a LR Offroad Experience day to put an identical car side by side with mine, on the same ventilation settings, and corroborate that one blew your fingers off and the other did'nt have an asthmatic mosquito's puff!
My brand new 4.4 is perfect out of the box.
HTH

Yep Asthmatic Mosquito puff , is a very good description of my heater problem.

Not getting the vehicle back this weekend as they are awaiting parts  56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

I had a phone call today to say my vehicle is ready to collect and they tell me have fitted an new rear wiper motor, re-attached a blend motor so the windscreen vents now work, fitted 2 new PDC sensors and one new TPMS sensor. They are still making excuses about the TPMS sensors, but they tell me the light is off now.

I will head off this weekend and collect the vehicle and see what they have fixed.

It seemed the recorded delivery letter I sent got a response more in keeping with what I expected. 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Thought I would update you all as I have now come to a resolution to the problems I had with my VSE

Everything was fixed by the garage (Expressway Cars - Glasgow) except for the TPMS fault which they would not acknowledge. So I statrted legal proceedings to have the fault put right. Following 8 months of negotiation with my solicitor they have now paid to have new TMPS valves fitted.

2 points to note

1) if you have the legal expenses cover on your house insurance you can take action under the sale of goods act for nothing (the insurnace company pick up the tab), well £25 was the cost of the policy.

2) don't ever buy a car from Expressway cars ing Glasgow as you will need a solicitor to get them to fix any problems  56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

jessooooo Andy

its good you done this as it keeps these car garages on their toes!

Quick question - how much did it cost to get the inspection done and how detailed was it? feel free to PM me.

It was £57 for the inspection as it was just a fault code read from my local LR dealer and as short report confirming that items I had identified were faulty and not my imagination, I think a full report would be closer to £200-300 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)