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Philip



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I think "Scaremongering Tory scum!" is the official response.

Post #280045 9th Sep 2014 8:05pm
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MachineHead



Member Since: 20 Apr 2014
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alanm_3 wrote:
I think this thread highlights the situation here at the moment. People have their opinions and arguments either way and never the twain shall meet.

From my perspective, I'm fiercely proud to be Scottish and I'd love to think that a yes vote would make Scotland a country that could stand on it's own without the UK but I just don't believe it can.

I also find it rather strange that there's so much emphasis on Trident and how much it might save the country billions all of a sudden. The yes campaign are very quick to claim that the better together campaign are jumping on bandwagons when they question yet another unsubstantiated claim, whether it's the NHS, Trident or whatever.


Trident won't save billions all of a sudden, Scotland not spending billions on it when it doesn't need it will.

Labour in UK are shouting in parliament and in campaigns that the Gov't is destroying the NHS, is ruining and privatising it, yet when the Yes campaign point this out those very same people say no it's not. They tell you the reduced funding in the UK NHS budget will not affect Scotland, of course it will. One Westminster party arguing both sides of the same argument?

These like the billions on debt interest are not bandwagons they are viable points.

I agree though that there are many of us who have now looked at the situation and the figures and made our decisions, in fact I have already voted. There is never going to be a consensus among all, but at the end of the day - yes or no - we still have to live next to each other so either way people will get on with it and move forward. 09 TDV8 Westminster, Mariana Black, Rear seat entertainment, hatch bag and 2 slobbery mutts

Post #280046 9th Sep 2014 8:06pm
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Gazellio @ Prestige Cars



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deleted as post inbetween

Post #280047 9th Sep 2014 8:06pm
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alanm_3



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I've already voted too, as I'm away on holiday tomorrow.

Nothing that's been argued in this past week has made me doubt my choice, in fact, I find the whole situation is becoming more unsavoury as the days go by. Got - 2017 SDV8 Autobiography in Loire Blue
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Post #280048 9th Sep 2014 8:09pm
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GraemeC



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@ Gaz - see my earlier comment re. Markets hating uncertainty - all that is being offer by Salmond is uncertainty over the fundamental economic underpinnings of an independent Scotland. Not a chance of any external investment into an independent Scotland unless they have their own currency and central bank

@ Trommel - now I see why you don't want to get dragged into political debates! 2007 Zermatt Silver TDV8 Vogue SE - now sold but was a great car!

Post #280050 9th Sep 2014 8:14pm
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andy180



Member Since: 26 Aug 2010
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This is what they're all like.... Insulting other parts of OUR United Kingdom.

Machinehead it's a well known fact that Scotland get a 'wee bit' more than we put in because we have higher unemployment. That's the beauty of the union though, we support each other, we help each other out. Sure there's the usual jibes about Scotland/England, but I'm proud of all parts of the UK.

Yes voters are making Scots look like a selfish and narrow minded group of people. I can assure we're not all like this. Now: BMW 640d M Sport, Alpine White
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Post #280051 9th Sep 2014 8:16pm
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MachineHead



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Trommel wrote:
There are huge, fundamental, unavoidable questions which the Yes campaign has either ignored, glossed over or failed to answer. Economic facts are economic facts. If this was any other political campaign, it would have been wholly discredited from the first week. They have failed abjectly in preparing an adequate plan.

The Yes campaign has already caused social division - if the country really had taken leave of its senses and been sucked in, it will get a whole lot worse, and permanently.


Please the no campaign have equally avoided answers and points in fact they are now trying to buy votes with devo max plus promises and visits from the leaders.

The fact is neither can give you definitive exact figures or fact on the future without a time machine and anyone who has studied statistical analysis will tell you 99% of statistics are made up. No lead the statistics and figures in a manner that benefits their own point they don't tell you the negative ones they hide those, yes do the same, that's politics for you.

Only by examining both for yourself can you reach an informed decision and then there are people who have financial or business interests in either yes or no who use their figures as definite to accentuate their argument. They don't know either they just want you to know what is best for then by telling you its best for you.

I hear the but yes haven't answered all the questions regularly, the fact is neither have no but both want you to believe the other has failed more because neither can be 100% certain of the future in or out of the union.

I'm not a sheep, nor am I an uneducated moron who lives in a hut, I have the capacity to read, research, understand, calculate and learn and "economic facts" are only economic points from someone else mouth. Remember the FACT that Iraq had wmd's turned out not to be a fact didn't it, everyone cooks the books, believing a "fact" handed to you as given is simply believing the person telling you it. You don't control banking, spending, taxes, revenue and those that do will never give you the facts just the points they want you to take as fact. 09 TDV8 Westminster, Mariana Black, Rear seat entertainment, hatch bag and 2 slobbery mutts

Post #280054 9th Sep 2014 8:21pm
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MachineHead



Member Since: 20 Apr 2014
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andy180 wrote:
This is what they're all like.... Insulting other parts of OUR United Kingdom.

Machinehead it's a well known fact that Scotland get a 'wee bit' more than we put in because we have higher unemployment. That's the beauty of the union though, we support each other, we help each other out. Sure there's the usual jibes about Scotland/England, but I'm proud of all parts of the UK.

Yes voters are making Scots look like a selfish and narrow minded group of people. I can assure we're not all like this.


Sadly I hear this a lot too, but I will not descend into trading insults 09 TDV8 Westminster, Mariana Black, Rear seat entertainment, hatch bag and 2 slobbery mutts

Post #280055 9th Sep 2014 8:23pm
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Contraband



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Scotland 

That's me up to speed now after reading every post...
Trommel 1 - 0 Machinehead

Machinehead, you wrote "personally I think a separate pound is better".... You also stated earlier that it would be worth more than an English pound.
Surely that would make us uncompetitive to our biggest market, England. I'm not sure any English company would buy our services after separation anyway.
I think the whole YES campaign has been horrendous. They should have been convincing us with budgeted facts and figures in order to put everyone at ease.. they haven't done that. They are basically just going all braveheart and nationalistic and making people feel that if they don't vote yes then they are not really Scottish enough.

Apart from the economic side of things there is the fact we would no longer be British. We have built the UK together, we have fought wars together. In order for us to give up on the union we need a better reason than Salmond telling us to just trust him and it will all be ok. Previously..
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Post #280056 9th Sep 2014 8:27pm
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MachineHead



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Trommel wrote:
I think "Scaremongering Tory scum!" is the official response.


I do hope that was not a response to my question of what you know of me, if so very disappointing answer and very wrong on all three words Laughing 09 TDV8 Westminster, Mariana Black, Rear seat entertainment, hatch bag and 2 slobbery mutts

Post #280057 9th Sep 2014 8:30pm
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supershuttle



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I tell you what, I don't have a say because I'm a sassenach but its certainly going to make for an interesting nights viewing Very Happy Geoff

Post #280059 9th Sep 2014 8:35pm
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Andy_J



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Best get all your DIY done before 18th September. B&Q have said they will be putting their prices up in an independent Scotland. Wonder who else will take the opportunity to make a bit extra 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
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Post #280060 9th Sep 2014 8:39pm
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MachineHead



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Contraband wrote:
That's me up to speed now after reading every post...
Trommel 1 - 0 Machinehead

Machinehead, you wrote "personally I think a separate pound is better".... You also stated earlier that it would be worth more than an English pound.
Surely that would make us uncompetitive to our biggest market, England. I'm not sure any English company would buy our services after separation anyway.
I think the whole YES campaign has been horrendous. They should have been convincing us with budgeted facts and figures in order to put everyone at ease.. they haven't done that. They are basically just going all braveheart and nationalistic and making people feel that if they don't vote yes then they are not really Scottish enough.

Apart from the economic side of things there is the fact we would no longer be British. We have built the UK together, we have fought wars together. In order for us to give up on the union we need a better reason than Salmond telling us to just trust him and it will all be ok.


I'm not into point scoring but feel free.

I think you will find Uk companies will still trade its not in their interest not to, they are businesses regardless of gov't politics. interesting you say "English" there is also Wales and NI people are far to stuck on the old England Scotland debate. I note a few people have spoken of England in this debate over what is alleged a fair UK. If its the uk and you are proud of it say UK.

We are still on an island people are not going to stop talking, trading its in neithers interest.

There is also repeat Alec Salmon phobia, personally I am not mad keen on him but its easy to he says this and that not the Scottish business leaders, farmers, other politicians, historians many many people. Plus in the event of a yes vote Scotland will vote in a new gov't Salmond is not going to be around by his own admission. But if you can reduce it to just one man you can legitimise your point somehow? it doesn't work. 09 TDV8 Westminster, Mariana Black, Rear seat entertainment, hatch bag and 2 slobbery mutts

Post #280061 9th Sep 2014 8:40pm
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alanm_3



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This may a gross generalisation but there are those who are voting that believe they actually ARE voting for Salmond and no amount of fiscal discussion, one way or the other, makes the blindest bit of difference. Got - 2017 SDV8 Autobiography in Loire Blue
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Post #280062 9th Sep 2014 8:43pm
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MachineHead



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Andy_J wrote:
Best get all your DIY done before 18th September. B&Q have said they will be putting their prices up in an independent Scotland. Wonder who else will take the opportunity to make a bit extra


Laughing Laughing Laughing hilarious, as said businesses who have interests in one or the other will say what they like. Truth is the talk the talk but want the customers. Don't use em anyway they are expensive without increases so good on em and good luck because yes or no people remember stances like that Rolling Eyes 09 TDV8 Westminster, Mariana Black, Rear seat entertainment, hatch bag and 2 slobbery mutts

Post #280063 9th Sep 2014 8:43pm
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