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cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 358

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Galway Green

That sounds about right with the seat bars but as I’m naturally lazy I’ll still spen 10 seconds with a Stanley knife if there’s a next time.

Post #472569 14th Mar 2018 12:30pm
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tj2k



Member Since: 10 Dec 2017
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Ipanema Sand

Hmf, Stratstone quoted:

£374.40 labour to do the TB plus £500.23 pence for the service - so £874.63 total.

Food for thought...

Post #472571 14th Mar 2018 12:51pm
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cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 358

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Galway Green

As a guide I reckon I could do the whole job in under 2 hours now I know where everything is and how it comes apart, obviously it took me a lot longer than that but I’m a cautious amateur.
I would call it an easy job as everything is pretty accessible

Post #472579 14th Mar 2018 1:47pm
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tj2k



Member Since: 10 Dec 2017
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Ipanema Sand
TB

Just had this back from Hatfields (Mike is the parts guy):

I have had a conversation with Michael and worked out the job will be £772.20 this however doesn’t include the parts you spoke with Michael over- we would need the vehicle in for the full day.


!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I've written back & asked if that's including the Service.

Post #472582 14th Mar 2018 2:11pm
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Baltic Blue



Member Since: 13 Aug 2015
Location: Oldham/ Conwy North Wales
Posts: 2946

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Baltic Blue

Are you able to send the bulletin to Stan for inclusion in Wiki ?

Mike G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.

Post #472589 14th Mar 2018 3:29pm
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kgeddes



Member Since: 11 Jan 2015
Location: Argyll
Posts: 220

Scotland 2008 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Zermatt Silver

Is this any good?

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2014/SB-10057588-6294.pdf 2008 L322 3.6 TDV8 Overfinch Silver
2010 L322 3.6 TDV8 Overfinch Bournville (sold)
2002 L322 V8 Vogue LPG Blue (sold)
1999 P38 V8 Overfinch LPG Green (sold)
1998 P38 DSE Green (sold)
1999 P38 DHSE Green (sold)
2002 L322 V8 Vogue Grey (sold)
1998 P38 DSE Red (sold)
1995 P38 V8 Overfinch LPG Green (sold)
1996 P38 V8 Autobiography LPG Red (sold)
1996 P38 V8 Vogue LPG Green (sold)

Post #472590 14th Mar 2018 4:28pm
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tj2k



Member Since: 10 Dec 2017
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Ipanema Sand
Possibly Fixed but a little bad news... Suspension Fault

Ok, very long post with pics follows:

I've had good & bad news this weekend. I've taken some pics & uploaded some of them as can be seen below.

Suspecting (but not knowing for obvious reasons) that there may still be too much fuel in the tank, I made a start on the TB;

I removed the seat fastenings, raised the carpet and held it back with some improvised rope, then removed inspection plate / cover over the fuel pump / tank / senders and confirmed that there was indeed too much fuel still in the tank to get to all 3 connectors (which are to be removed & instead crimped as per the TB). That said, I'm still unsure how to remove the pump / sender?

I did manage to replace the obvious connector just inside the tank (pictured below), I also fitted the new tank rubber seals for what it was worth as well. The new seals are orange as opposed to the original ones being black? No clue why.

As I couldn't get to the others / release & remove the fuel pump - the fuel level was just too deep (can anyone re-describe how the fuel pump or sender is removed, once fuel is low enough please?), I closed up everything & tested.

Well, the fuel gauge now reads fine - but obviously, I still have 2 further weak points - in that the other 2 connectors are yet to be replaced - but there was an instant positive change - in that the fuel gauge is now reporting accurately (it went up to 1/2 - car parked on incline though - but about right) & I'd done +/- 244 miles driving fairly economically / longish drives.

The bad news is, I've got a new fault! Dash reported "Suspension Fault" - with IID, the rear right suspension level sensor reported:

C1A06-1C (AF) Rear right height sensor - General electrical failure - circuit voltage out of range

which of course, recurred immediately after an IID clear-faults.

As it was the same side as the fuel tank where I'd been working, I thought it too much of a coincidence to NOT be related.

So I had a good look. Turns out that the wiring to the level sensor goes through the grommet of the same inspection plate and then splits off away from the fuel tank toward the sensor.

What I think has happened is: as I'd disconnected the Wesbasto / FBH fuel pipe from the tank cap / flange, I think I put some pressure on the level sensor's wiring loom (going down from the grommet toward the sensor) and as a result, probably bridged / shorted a probably already corroded wire. I didn't put much pressure on it mind - hence why I think it was on its way anyway...

*** Very FOOLISHLY *** I got partially under the body, located & touched the connector into the level sensor and the wires going in it. They're fairly tight and nothing much moved. I got out from underneath (yes I know I should have put an axle-stands under the chassis) and the car dropped to the floor (way beyond access height) - literally!

So there's a fault / short there - I'm convinced of it.

So in fixing one issue, I seem to have accelerated another into surfacing (or levelling?? sorry for poor humour there!).

This part (for a Disco 3 I think) ymq503220 is the kind of thing I need to repair it I think. I need to remove the rear wheel to get access (my drive is very steep / 1:4 so I struggle on this point).

What a game...If anyone knows what the equivalent part is - I'd be interested but I have emailed my local LR Dealer anyway.

Ok so some pics of the fuel sender bits & bobs (& then the level sensor wires too):

What's under the carpet:



The right hand side inspection cover (the rear right level sensor wires are combined here & go through the grommet):


This is under the R.H. inspection panel - I cleaned mine up a bit - didn't want dust / muck contaminants getting into the fuel / system:


This isn't showing much other than fuel-return pipe disconnected and fuel-out pipe and the rubber Webasto / FBH fuel pipe still connected:


Ok, so the tank-cap removed, you can see the black connector - upper-most / dead-centre which I removed and replaced with 2 x crimps:


You can now see my 2 x crimped connections with the black-plug having been removed:


So, you can just about see that the fuel level is quite high - so at this point I replaced the rubber flanges and made it drivable for a test after crimping the 2 x wires into the connector which is now gone. The fuel gauge reported accurately - however, with 2 x residual connectors (4 x wires or points of weakness) still in there somewhere needing to be replaced, I cannot be certain that the fuel gauge problem won't resurface.

Thats when I got the suspension fault!! I was just a bit p*ssed off! (saying to myself: "FFS, I've just fixed one f*cking fault only to get another!!").

So the rear right level sensor wire traverses that grommet, then once out of the interior of the car (that grommet being the barrier between inside & outside of the car) it goes straight to the level sensor - and it's fairly tight too - so quite easy to see how I might have caused the issue. There is a small possibility that where the wires join just outside of the inspection panel (inside the car) - that there's a short in there - so I should really peel that thick insulation back and check but my guess is that it's outside of the car between that grommet and the plug (right next to the plug in fact) - & given what I say above about the plug & the car dropping - it's very likely to be right there.

I also noticed that there is a hanger or tab receptacle to secure the level sensors wire-loom to the chassis just down & out of sight from the fuel tank inspection hatch. Well, the wires are not hung and the loop to hang the wires on is free / loose. I don't know where it hangs / clips to - or even, if I dislodged it or it was already like that.

In any case, I *think* I need to replace the wires between the plug and where the wires running into it - are known to be good. Here's some pics:

Level sensor and the connector block:


Close-up of the connector block shortly before my car nearly tried to kill me (my own STUPID fault!):


Any similar experiences / advice appreciated (apart from criticism of my own stupidity please!?) Bow down

Post #473838 25th Mar 2018 6:22pm
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cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 358

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Galway Green

Sorry can’t help with your suspension problem but can suggest some pump removal help.
It sits in a moulded location on the tank floor and is locked in place by a spring loaded bar which pushes against the roof of the tank. You push down on the bar and pull the top of the pump towards you, once released it’s easier wriggle the pump out of the access hole upside down.
Mine only had 2 connectors and you seem to have sorted your initial problem so I probably wouldn’t bother doing the other one unless it failed in the future.

Post #474004 27th Mar 2018 4:16am
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tj2k



Member Since: 10 Dec 2017
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Ipanema Sand
Fixed x 2

So, both faults fixed but I had a bit of a game on mine:

On the fuel pump TB fix: having already replaced 1 connector (as above), I still had (at least) 1 more which I was going to leave (didn't do both / all 1st time around as there was too much diesel in the tank). That said, I'd parked the car downhill on my drive & next time the car was started, it suddenly said it had no fuel (from 1/4 full). Not being certain whether this was genuine or not, I thought I need to do remnant connectors in the tank Sad I was expecting 3 connectors but just like yours CASS, there was definitely only 2 in mine too. The 2nd one was pretty much at the back of the pump.

I released the pump, (having had a game understanding how it came out until I removed the passenger side sender - that one was a doddle of course). Mine seemed really tough to compress the clamp / springs down.

If you're reading this deciding on if you're going to do yours or not, well, be careful about when the spring clamp is released - if it's allowed (like I had) to suddenly spring up - without damping it (say with your hand) - you run the risk of what happened to me....

When I released the pump clamp, this happened (I don't know why the pics are upside down?):



The spring sprang out & the bar it surrounded, dropped into the pump. I sorted that by flipping the pump & refitting it into the clamp bar - but it was mega fiddly.

Getting the pump back in was a game to say the least, compressing the bar whilst aiming the base of the pump without it slipping back (& the bar dropping / spring springing out again) was really difficult at first - diesel being slippy of course.

Anyways, finally got it in (I used large cable-ties to partly compress the bars to help me get it back into place) - job done, fuel gauge TB fixed Thumbs Up

As for the suspension? Well, this lil begger:


...had caused this - through vibration - one edge of this hanger thing was embedded in the wire:


There was probably one strand left when I came to do the Fuel gauge TB & as the loom passes through the fuel tank inspection panel, in doing the TB I must have broke the last strand causing the suspension fault. The fault was really annoying as the car was dropping from the rear right corner progressively over a few hours until eventually the whole car was sat on the floor (lower than access point mode).

When I stripped back the insulation to crimp / bridge the wire, you can see from this pic that the copper beneath the insulation either side of the break was already oxidising & so had been going for some time....



So job done.

Post #474451 31st Mar 2018 7:21pm
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MikeO



Member Since: 02 Jan 2018
Location: The Cotswolds
Posts: 429

Scotland 2009 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Buckingham Blue

Having just done this job I can second tj2k's comments about being careful releasing the pump spring clamp. I also lost the bar / spring and then spent 5mins with my hand in the tank trying to find the bar only to discover it drops into the pump assembly. Having put it back together the Censored thing only dropped in again as I was fitting it (having just got all the other gubbins into the tank). Out it all came again just to refit the bar & spring.

It's a pig of a job to get the fuel pump and senders out if you've never done it before and there's a good chance of getting diesel all over the place. I'm surprised I can't smell it in the car now - the combination of plastic sheeting and newspaper must have done its job.

When I took off the RH cover, I tested the resistance across the senders and had one at 200 Ohms and one at 2k Ohms so something wasn't right. IID was showing a fuel sender 2 fault also.

The other top tip (as suggested by cass) is to cut the carpet under the seat bars rather than remove them. Saves one job and any issues realigning them.

Mine is a 2009 3.6 TDV8 and it looked just like tj2k's photos. 2009 FF Vogue TDV8 Buckingham Blue
<gone>BMW 520D SE (not my favourite car)</gone>
<gone>2009 D3 HSE Galway Green</gone>

Post #489330 19th Sep 2018 5:40pm
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tj2k



Member Since: 10 Dec 2017
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Ipanema Sand

Well done 👍My house stank of diesel for a long time afterwards!

Post #489333 19th Sep 2018 6:20pm
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dexion7



Member Since: 06 Jun 2013
Location: Tynemouth
Posts: 284

2010 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Alaska White

ive also just done this job on my 2010VSE tdv8

the gauge reading zero has happened before but cured itself when i fitted a new battery so i thought it was just one of those voltage gremlins. it returned last week however so i read up on it but not before filling it up to ensure it didn't run out!

drove it around for a week to get the level down some and got prepared with a couple of jerry cans and a drill operated pump to extract sufficient diesel to get below quarter full as discussed earlier in this thread.

definately cut the carpet - simple with a stanley knife and you wont see the joint when you fit it back together. i took off the right side inspection plate and it looked like the tank was empty but its difficult to tell (i later found, after fixing it that it was actually 5/8 full).

couldn't see the pump at all (because of the fuel level), just the 3 pipes going down from the inspection plate with the cables next to them. the first connector is accessible for repair without removing anything further and in my case this appeared to be the culprit. this connector just hangs in the fuel and had no support and was crying out for a small cable tie to hold it against the bulk of the harness and i suspect that could have caused the problem. using a torch and a mgnifying glass i couldn't see any fretting on the pins and and unplugging / replugging a few times then switching on ignition has fixed it.

looking at the electrical connector externally on the tank there are 8 male pins with all the pins in-line. the two pins on each end are the ones for the sender units and, armed with this knowledge, if i was doing the job agian i would test the resistance between each pair before pulling it apart as that would confirm that the problem was deffo inside the tank and depending upon which of the two pin pairs was open circuit, might also save you from pulling the pump to access the connector which was ok. in my case i had 460 ohms and 475 ohms when i checked after reseating the first connector a few times which, as i said, equates to over half a tank full. i couldn't even see the other connector without further removal.

its certainly one of those jobs that is easier to do than it is to explain and which could be done again in a fraction of the time


as a side note: i only drove around 100 miles since the problem manifested itself this time around but the first occurence about 2 years ago drove far more and haven't experienced the engine shut down problems others have described

Post #491843 11th Oct 2018 10:04am
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DMRR



Member Since: 14 Apr 2010
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 2027

South Africa 2009 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Stornoway Grey

MikeO wrote:
Mine is a 2009 3.6 TDV8 and it looked just like tj2k's photos.


Mine is the same year and I have a fuel sender 2 issue. Is that the easy one to sort or do I have to remove the pump? I don't get much time off from work so would need to plan well in advance! Land Rover Addict
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Post #491844 11th Oct 2018 10:22am
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MikeO



Member Since: 02 Jan 2018
Location: The Cotswolds
Posts: 429

Scotland 2009 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Buckingham Blue

I don't know which one is which but it's a relatively easy job to do what dexion7 did and you have a 50% chance of success. You only need to remove the right hand cover plates and reach inside.

If it's the other one you're probably looking at least a couple of hours of messing about and a fair bit of mess... Sad 2009 FF Vogue TDV8 Buckingham Blue
<gone>BMW 520D SE (not my favourite car)</gone>
<gone>2009 D3 HSE Galway Green</gone>

Post #491846 11th Oct 2018 10:37am
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dexion7



Member Since: 06 Jun 2013
Location: Tynemouth
Posts: 284

2010 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Alaska White

DMRR wrote:
MikeO wrote:
Mine is a 2009 3.6 TDV8 and it looked just like tj2k's photos.


Mine is the same year and I have a fuel sender 2 issue. Is that the easy one to sort or do I have to remove the pump? I don't get much time off from work so would need to plan well in advance!


i dont have an OBD tool either so don't know which code relates to which sender. i can say however that when you unplug the external fuel tank connector, the left most pair of 2 pins (8 pins in a line) go to the most easily accessible internal connector. put your ohm meter across each pair of pins BEFORE you pull it apart. if you do this and the strange reading is the left pair then you are in luck and should have the easy fix.

as i said in my last post, the way that internal connector just hangs there is not very good and it probably minutely flexes every time you go around a bend resulting in fretting. good access is possible to the first internal connector and unplugging / replugging a few times might be a 100% solution.

the second pair of wires for the other sender's internal connector (both sender units have a black and a blue wire) can be seen dissapearing off somewhere else in the tank (presumeably access to that connector is only possible after removal of the other, left, access cover).

however, the fretting which takes place is just that - "fretting" as apposed to "pitting". pitting is caused by arcing from high current and microwelds with high resistance whereas fretting doesn't and means you can move the male and female pins relative to each other and thus hopefully resume a point of good contact.

why is this relevant? well, since the current flowing across the pins in the connectors is very low, even a poor connection between the male and female pins will be ok and (just my guess) the effects of fretting on the inaccessible internal connector might be negated simply by gentle tugging on the wires which go to it.

like i said, mine had this problem a few years ago and it went away an returned 20k miles later. once you have had the right cover off and replugged the acceible one and tugged a little on the other one i reckon you have a pretty good chance of fixing it.

also, you mentioned the time involved - try doing a dummy run which just involves external stuff like learning how to get the trim off etc and meauring the reistance. fitting the trim bakc on is really quick too. you will then find that the full job including the in tank work is simple (assuming you don't need to pull the pump!)

Post #491887 11th Oct 2018 4:41pm
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