No, I'm not referring to a new girlfriend..

My 2009 TDV8 Vogue has again been sent off to the dealership now for serious diagnostics into battery drain.

After 21 months of ownership, 39 incidents of completely flat batteries, 9 LR/breakdown assistance starts and 2 batteries, I ended up carrying a 700aH starting pack in the boot, which I used regularly.
Became a joke really, and as a result the car has not really been used the last 6 months. That's meant the car now looks in a sorry state with rusted wheel hubs, and corroded disks as well as the paintwork needing a decent polish.

This morning LR Assistance got the AA to recover the vehicle to the dealer. It had again failed to start (battery at 2.6v) after just over 4 days standing parked at home.

Europcar (completely unannounced) also delivered a 14,000mile D4 as a 'loaner'. Unfortunately it's filthy, has dog hair across all the seats, stinks of something nasty, has a small pile of old cigarette butts in the ashtray, and two of the tyres are nearly bald. I'll ask them to take it back on Monday and I won't put a single mile on it.

The dealer (Kentdale) has been good, but they do appear to be struggling to really fix this and get the car sorted.

Land Rover now have an ultimatum - fix it, prove it's fixed (by parking it up for 14 days and then starting), return it to reasonable used car showroom condition and I'll take it back. If they can't fix it to my satisfaction, or if they do and at any time in the remaining year of warranty the vehicle fails to start, they can keep the vehicle and I'll be taking action to recover the value of the vehicle plus loss of use.

After many, many years of Land Rovers, and having been a real fan of the marque - I am afraid this experience and the failure of Customer Service at Jaguar Land Rover to sort this out effectively has now damaged my faith in the brand.

I can't see me returning to Land Rover in the future - and that's a major statement from someone with the green oval in their blood from birth, and a grand total of 21 Land Rover vehicles owned since I started driving 30 years ago. Nobody can say I didn't give them a chance, but this time, after almost 2 years of pratting about with no resolution - I've finally reached my limit.

Such a shame.

Muddy Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 - L405 (now sadly sold)
BMW i3 (fantastic little runabout)
Kioti NX6010 Tractor
Yamaha Big Bear ATV
And a whole heap of other kit...

Once a battery has been discharged too much its foooked anyway.

If you have the time & patience - disconnect it completely & see if if holds a charge. If it does reconnect it and remove all the fuses leave for a day or 2 then check again - replace half the fuses - leave for a few days - if flat remove half of what you replaced & try again - if not replace half of what is left etc. until you narrow down which circuit is causing the drain.

Ooh, that's a tough one.

Although I cannot imagine having the patience to live the issues you describe, I fear there may not be any other car that will satisfy you... or me, if I were in your position.

LR clearly have an issue with the battery life/voltage in the RR and I think you're right, it has affected the brand reputation. It remains to be seen how widespread the problem is, but judging by the number of posts about the same issue, it seems to be affecting a load of people.

If it were me, I think I'd probably 'police' the ultimatum very closely. One hint of an issue with the car and it would go straight back. Of course, once the big issues have been fixed, you'd have a hard time having the resolve to get rid of the car for a niggle... and I'd imagine the dealer would also be reluctant to take it back once they had put so much work into fixing it.

I wonder if you could talk them into fitting a dry cell battery in the location in the boot? Researching my first Range Rover purchase

How many dealers/ service outlets have looked at the car? If only one then I would suggest trying a different dealership 2018 Mini Countryman Cooper S E All4 PHEV in Melting Silver - it’s whisper quiet in EV and polluter modes

Sorry but i would be giving them it back and say cheerio LR ........... Jeez you must have the patience of a Saint to put up with all that ...... ====================================

"Open Mike Night " sounded like a lot of fun until i found out i was going to an Autopsy

In answer to all the replies so far...
Alistair : there have been two new batteries on this vehicle, it has had every fuse pulled known to man and a few that aren't, it's had a current logger put on it for 4 days and still I'm told it's 'within tolerance' by LR. The LONGEST I've ever been able to leave the vehicle without a jump start or calling LR Assist (just what you need at an airport after a 13hr flight) is 5 days.
I've had a battery conditioner on a new battery- that sort of worked OK as long as I come home each night.
The best solution that enabled me to use it most of last year was to keep a 700ah starter pack in the car and pop the bonnet as soon as I saw the electrics were sluggish before I tried to crank the car.
This was in between the times that I'm trying to get a solution from LR. Latterly I just got fed up and have been using our Shogun 4Work. That started first turn of the key even at -22 degC. My RR has essentially been parked up and little used now since December. Got it restarted by Assist One day in March, drove it for 8 hours during the day minimal electric load, parked up, 3 hours later the fecker wouldn't start. Only just got it going with the pack.

TurboTony: I asked about a second battery, they said it would void the warranty, but they'd be happy to do that... I value that warranty!! Especially now.

Tim: two dealers have looked at it in the past, Lookers Park Royal and Kentdale. to be fair to Lookers it was early on, and the problem didn't seem so marked. Although I later learned they did have to use a pack to start it when I picked it up from service. They thought someone had left the glove box open...
I've had problems before when I moved dealers that couldn't sort out a niggly speaker problem on my D3, and had them later claim as supplying dealer that the problem was caused by the new dealer! I vowed not to do that again - and to be fair I think Kentdale are trying. it is just that this brand new car was a lemon, and has been from around 2 months into my ownership. I think it just needs to go back and be crushed.
I've been tempted myself to have an 'accident' with the loader bucket on the farm - but being honest as the day is long, I couldn't do that.  Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 - L405 (now sadly sold)
BMW i3 (fantastic little runabout)
Kioti NX6010 Tractor
Yamaha Big Bear ATV
And a whole heap of other kit...

Mick, us farming types have to be patient... It goes with the lifestyle.
 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 - L405 (now sadly sold)
BMW i3 (fantastic little runabout)
Kioti NX6010 Tractor
Yamaha Big Bear ATV
And a whole heap of other kit...

I voted in the poll for give Range Rover another chance, but I would not make it this easy for them.

Personally I would get rather stroppy, and demand they take the car back, however I would expect them to ask for a final chance to put things right, and I would grant them that chance.

Realistically, I think in order to compel them to give a refund, you would need to prove that you've exhausted every avenue for amicable solution before getting too heavy, so it's a very logical step, since it moves you forward towards a final resolution whatever happens.

Maybe give them a list of options:

1. Compensate you for the money you spend on the car, and the loss of use whilst you owned it
2. Replace it with an equivalent or better car (px with decent discount on upgrade?)
3. Take the car in, fix it so that they are 100% confident that it will not give any further issues, and give you an equivalent or better loan car for the duration.

Anyway sorry to hear your problems, makes me think my intermittent issues with one rear screen not working, flat spot at 4,000 revs, and non working drivers lumbar bolster are not that bad after all! 2012 SDV8 Vogue SE

Well Muddy, sorry to hear about all the troubles. BUT....

This is quite obviously a current drain. There is no other possible explanation for it. You've had new batteries so that rules out a duff unit there.

It's clearly not the alternator as it's fine when being driven regularly.

All that leaves is something draining the battery when the alternator's not charging it. It simply cannot be anything else.

Now, with all this new fangled technology and diagnostic equipment they have in dealers these days the fitters rarely (if ever) actually understand the physics behind it all. What you need is a proper Auto-Electrician, preferably one with grey hair and who understands Ohm's Law. Oh, and he really ought to be able to use an ammeter as well.

If it were me I would have a recording multi-meter on the car for at least a day and then examine what it has recorded. This can give clues if there is a module waking up when it shouldn't be. But it really is a case of checking each circuit until the offender is found. It's not rocket science but it does need patience, something severely lacking in the modern workshop where time is money.

To be frank, I think you've been more than reasonable. Best advice I can give is to make a formal appointment with the DP. Explain to him that they have one more chance to fix it, for good, and if it fails again for the same reason you will sue them for a refund.

The point is that is IS fixable. It's just that way too many modern mechanics couldn't find their own ar5e in the dark if they used both hands.

Best of luck

Dom

Quote:

After 21 months of ownership, 39 incidents of completely flat batteries, 9 LR/breakdown assistance starts and 2 batteries, I ended up carrying a 700aH starting pack in the boot, which I used regularly.

Take it up to Torver, they are the best LR dealership, according to internal poll.

But I would do what I am in the process of doing and say Bye Bye RR.


If they cant sort new vehicles out then no hope on yours.

Thanks all for your replies.

Just to clarify: I am giving JLR in conjunction with the dealer one last chance to fix the issue permanently.
If they fix it, I'll have the car back and watch it like a hawk for the sightest issue over the remaining 12 months of warranty. I may decide if they fix it effectively to then trade it in or sell it.

If the vehicle fails just once more in the same manner at any time in the next year it will be returned to Jaguar Land Rover in the most public way possible (I have a few good, legal and newsworthy ideas on that one).

I reckon it would probably be worth spending the residual value left in the vehicle to do something very dramatic, and hopefully make the news, and certainly the trade press. I'm already talking to a well known publicist.
Take note JLR. You can still fix this, so take an interest and pull your socks up.

I will then engage in recovering the cost of the vehicle, compensation for time wasted and a reasonable sum for all the loss of use from JLR.

I don't like being fobbed off, and I have already been more than reasonable.


Muddy Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 - L405 (now sadly sold)
BMW i3 (fantastic little runabout)
Kioti NX6010 Tractor
Yamaha Big Bear ATV
And a whole heap of other kit...

I always take great interest in episodes like this. I think a problem is the 'accountability' issue. It can never be pinned down to one person, but an organisation or company. I am solely accountable for all vehicles I sell. If there is a defect to be remedied, I am the only point of contact and things can be sorted in a matter of days, rather than weeks or months as I can devote more time than large franchised dealers.
I sold a 2007 '57' FFRR TDV8 that 6 days later developed a battery drain issue. I made £3420 profit on the sale of that vehicle, so I was happy to invest up to that amount in fixing the issue. It went to a trusted auto electrician and £350 later it was fixed. He has seen a 'common issue' on the RR's where the alarm system is over sensitive apparently. We had a little experiment, left another RR I had locked for 6 days, tried to start it and it failed. Had it fully charged, then left it for 6 days unlocked. Started straight away. Obviously, I'm not suggesting we leave our vehicles unlocked but he has fixed a number of RR battery issues doing something with the alarm system. I shall speak to him on Monday and ask him for the details.
If you do decide to sell the vehicle, I would be more than happy to sell the vehicle on your behalf and provide a courtesy vehicle until yours is sold.

Out of interest, are all these vists to a dealer and warranty repairs logged on the dealers system?

Because before I buy any Range Rover (knowing reliability issues) I get my dealer to check out it's history.
They tell me if it's had any warranty work and if any recalls have been done.

If your car is showing up with multiple visits to the dealer for problems from new I'd not want to touch it with a bargepole as a used buyer...

Maybe something worth considering when you are deciding to keep it or get Land Rover to give you a car that actually works?

The honest answer is I don't know. Somehow I doubt every visit and incident has been logged.
Do LR Assist visits get logged on the vehicle history? Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 - L405 (now sadly sold)
BMW i3 (fantastic little runabout)
Kioti NX6010 Tractor
Yamaha Big Bear ATV
And a whole heap of other kit...