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Pawl



Member Since: 08 Nov 2017
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 666

England 2007 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Cairns Blue
Help : 3.6 TDV8 EGR Inlet Pipe Failure

Anyone with useful experience ?

Background :
2006 3.6TDV8, 140,000 miles (original turbos !)
10 miles from home yesterday, started accelerating away from some traffic lights & there was weird, almost “Pop” noise & then extra exhaust noise from the rear left hand side of the engine.
I stopped and had a brief look underneath & in the engine bay & couldn’t see anything obviously hanging / broken (or worse – lol), just exhaust noise obviously near the outlet of the LH turbo.
I thought maybe the flexible section in the LH turbo exhaust outlet had broken, so drove slowly home using as little throttle as possible. Definitely significant loss of torque when I briefly explored using more throttle / torque, so I backed off again.

I got the car on the ramps this morning to confirm whether it was the flexi & discovered the noise was higher than Turbo outlet.
The exhaust "flexi" appeared OK & had no exhaust soot anywhere.

After removing the front catalytic converter heat shield I could feel the metal pipe from the LH exhaust manifold to the LH EGR was moving around far too easily.
When I got the torch in closer, its obvious the tube is no longer attached to its retaining flange. I can’t work out how the tube should have been fastened inside the flange – maybe a couple of spot welds that have broke ?
Photo below.

Click image to enlarge


I’ve attached some views from the WM at the end if they help anyone understand.


Advice / Experience ?
1 -Has anyone any experience of this part failing & you fixing it ? If yes, how did you fix it ?

Fixing it looks a nightmare as the retaining flange is above the front cat & space for hands / tools to remove the 2 off 8mm head retaining bolts looks too small. From above superficially looks equally bad.
I’m guessing the choice might be to remove the LH turbo outlet pipe / front cat to get improved access to the EGR tube retaining flange bolts. However, the retaining bolts onto the turbo are only 8mm hex & look almost as bad to get to / highly likely to break while being loosened.
2 - Has anybody had these bolts break while removing the cat ? Or advice how to prevent them breaking ?

3 - I’m not sure yet what I’d have to remove to get enough access from above to the broken end if even possible ?
Obviously access to the other end of the EGR pipe is possible from the top, as I had to get to that when working on the EGRs a couple of years ago.

From the RR WM pictures, there’s a retaining bracket I’m guessing welded to the pipe & bolted to the back of the block that will also need unfastening.
4 – Has anybody successfully got to this & removed it with the engine in place ?

The ”bodge” solution might be to try & re-locate the pipe in the flange “in situ” (it doesn’t appear to be a loose fit !) & then attempt to get a MIG welding torch in somehow to apply a few tack welds. Unfortunately, this would only be on the lower side of the pipe which is visible / possibly accessible – not all the way round.
5 – Any thoughts ?








[/img] Paul,
2001 Discovery 2 TD5, 211,000 miles & climbing
2006 FFRR TDV8 Vogue 145,000 miles & climbing
Member of Midland (Land) Rover Owners Club, www.mroc.co.uk

Post #658654 6th Mar 2023 5:19pm
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Pawl



Member Since: 08 Nov 2017
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 666

England 2007 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Cairns Blue

After receiving no responses from anyone with experience, I decided to proceed carefully - it wasn't going to fix itself !
Just in case anybody has the same problem, here's what I ended up having to do to resolve the problem - a bit long for completeness !

I discovered that by removing the plastic engine top cover & cabin filter housing I could lie on the top of the engine (not comfortable - lol) and get a hand down the back of the engine and feel the broken pipe end & the flange retaining bolt heads.
The EGR pipe was in the way for tool access - but fortunately could be removed after removing a small supporting bracket behind the block & removing the 2 retaining bolts on the EGR. My EGRs are mechanically blanked at the inlet manifold side, so the EGR pipe wasn't going to be refitted !

With the EGR pipe gone & 2 heater hoses tied back out the way, there was just enough space to get in with a 1/4" drive ratchet, short extension & 8mm socket. The upper bolt head could just be seen through a gap in the various parts. The lower bolt was invisible.
Jubilee clip tangs sticking out on what I think was a heater control valve made hand removal very painful & was eventually overcome with thick chunks of "tank" tape & 2 pairs of rubber gloves !

Unfortunately, the ergonomics were so bad I was really afraid the socket would slip off the bolt heads & round them off - making removal impossible as there was no access for bolt extractors, drills etc.
I changed to a 6 sided socket rather than bi-hex, hoping for a tighter fit - but it was still loose.
A sudden thought was that the "socket" holding a 8mm hex bit might be better & after extracting the hex bit, I had a 6 sided socket that was a good fit.
Initial attempts at loosening the bolts confirmed my worse fears - they were very, very tight & / or corroded in. I decided there was a very high risk of breaking the bolt heads off - resulting in an unusable car without dropping the engine far enough to get better access for extraction tools (would have to be dropped 6 inches plus Shocked )
Decision made - 5 days of repeated spraying with XCP penetrating oil . Only possible from underneath the car unfortunately !

After 5 days, I tried loosening the upper bolt & finally it started to move (at much lower effort than I'd tried 5 days previously !) & then could be extracted (about a 1/4 of a turn max at a time). The lower bolt also loosened, but was tight all the way out - damaged thread ?
With the bolts out I could remove the EGR pipe retaining flange & use it to make a thin metal blanking plate to be retained by refitting the flange
I forgot to take a photo - but it was same shape as the flange, but obviously without the central hole.
I managed to get an M6 tap into the lower bolt hole with a small hand chuck & clean up the thread



The "old" flange was then used to retain the new blanking plate with a smear of exhaust paste to help it seal & a change to internal hex head bolts to make tightening less risky.

Finishing off then just required removal of heater hose tie-backs, jubilee clip protection & refitting the cabin filter housing & engine cover - job done & engine sounding refined again.

The failed EGR pipe looks badly made. It looks as though the pipe is a force fit in the flange - maybe swaged in & possibly a single spot weld to hold them together - a recipe for a vibration induced failure.
My car is amongst the first with the 3.6TDv8 & interestingly the part number of the pipe appears to have changed ! Maybe Land Rover realised the design was no good & changed it sometime later.

Click image to enlarge


When I've got time in the Summer (ie warmer) I'll remove & blank off the EGR pipe on the RH bank of the v8 - as I assume design will be as bad. At least access looks slightly easier (same issues, but less bruised hands Laughing ) Paul,
2001 Discovery 2 TD5, 211,000 miles & climbing
2006 FFRR TDV8 Vogue 145,000 miles & climbing
Member of Midland (Land) Rover Owners Club, www.mroc.co.uk

Post #661307 7th Apr 2023 11:59am
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TDV8 Paul



Member Since: 30 Nov 2020
Location: Surrey
Posts: 182

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

Good find! I’m looking at doing the delete as my left hand egr is starting to die 2007 TDV8 Vogue SE
2005 BMW E63 645ci
2009 5.0 SC fatty
2024 Porsche Macan

Post #661315 7th Apr 2023 3:08pm
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Pawl



Member Since: 08 Nov 2017
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 666

England 2007 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Cairns Blue

Unfortunately blanking the EGR at the inlet manifold end doesn't prevent the EGR pipe failure & consequences I experienced.
Also remember blanking the EGR won't remove any fault codes due to a failing valve. You'll need to have it mapped out or connect a working valve. Paul,
2001 Discovery 2 TD5, 211,000 miles & climbing
2006 FFRR TDV8 Vogue 145,000 miles & climbing
Member of Midland (Land) Rover Owners Club, www.mroc.co.uk

Post #661319 7th Apr 2023 4:31pm
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