I would expect any half decent garage to drop / draw out an egg cup full of fluid and tell you it looks OK, or it's black, totally burnt smelling, etc and it's likely that the gearbox is absolutely bu&&ered. To say you have to have a £400 service to tell you that is, frankly out of order.

In my opinion, you're not being fed a lie when it comes to the likely issue being within your gearbox though.

TC clutch linings do wear of course, just like any friction material within a vehicle - but in my experience (which I'll caveat is with the earlier ZF 5hp24), lack of TC lock up is generally caused by an issue within your gearbox, either the lock up solenoid itself failing or the 'O' ring between the gearbox and the TC itself.

Ahah, you may say, so I just get my gearbox lock up solenoid fixed? Well, that's the very best case. And it might work. It's likely though, that the TC has not been locking up for some time and that the TC friction material worn away from constant lock / unlock (the vibration you feel) has found its way throughout the entire gearbox, potentially causing all manner of issues with its own clutch bands, solenoids, accumulators, etc.

Try to find a decent LR indy and explain you want to keep the car running, but not to the extent of a £3 or £4K gearbox rebuild. Firstly I'd ask them to drop some gearbox oil for a quick look. They're not going to do this for free of course, so factor in 1 hrs labour.

If the oil that come out looks like the devil's own poo, then I'd ask them what they'll charge to fit a 2nd hand low mileage gearbox & TC. Might be best to let them source it, but you may find an indy who will fit a gearbox you source yourself.

I would expect that should come in at 8 hrs labour (say £800 with VAT) + fluids & filter (£200 if using non ZF fluids) + £500 for gearbox, so say around £1500 all up?

Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

D3Jon wrote:

I would expect any half decent garage to drop / draw out an egg cup full of fluid and tell you it looks OK, or it's black, totally burnt smelling, etc and it's likely that the gearbox is absolutely bu&&ered. To say you have to have a £400 service to tell you that is, frankly out of order.

D3Jon wrote:

In my opinion, you're not being fed a lie when it comes to the likely issue being within your gearbox though.

Fair enough, I asked for tough love and got it

D3Jon wrote:

I would expect that should come in at 8 hrs labour (say £800 with VAT) + fluids & filter (£200 if using non ZF fluids) + £500 for gearbox, so say around £1500 all up

There must be a reasonable LR specialist in your neck of the woods?

I can think of a few near me (North Lincs / Hull area)

Ask around on this forum, by giving your general location. This place is full of very helpful people!

Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

D3Jon wrote:

There must be a reasonable LR specialist in your neck of the woods?

There are a couple yes, I've got the car booked in for a "pre-MOT" check on 25th October with a new specialist that I have not used before - I almost had to beg them as they stated they were not taking on new customers ........ luckily I went there in person and I think they took pity on me.

My usual garage is still an option but I have got the feeling that they don't really want to get into the muck and bullets of a 16 year old car and the quotes seem to be going beyond what would be normally acceptable (to me at least) - the cars they tend to have in the shop are usually either collectable Landies or other LR product less than 10 years old. No complaints about it from me, its their business to decide what they put their energy into.

Hopefully after the 25th I'll be able to talk to the new garage about the car in a general sense and see if they will work with me for solutions.

We shall see

Update: oh well it’s gone nuclear!!

Before I really had much of a chance it’s decided to flash up all the warning lights, including “transmission fault …..” and most other warnings HDC, engine fault, park brake etc etc.

Looks like the car has decided my fate, just got to decide where to transport it to 🤦🏻‍♂️

Happy days!

It's probably not beyond repair and all of the warning lights are likely to all be related to the gearbox.

If you have access to a diagnostic tool, then read the codes and make a decision from there. Or get a garage to do this. Are you in the AA / RAC? Could get them to read the codes as it's now effectively broken down.

Overall condition of the vehicle has to be a factor in deciding whether it's worth you spending the money on it. For example, what are the cills (towards the rear) ike and rear arches? Known rot spots and a deciding factor on whether you want to spend the money putting the car back on the road.

Good luck and I hope this turns out ok for you

Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

Thank you Jon, sage advice as always!!

So got a bit of an interesting update. So when the car "nuked" itself last night I was a bit miffed as it chose the moment when I was in the middle of a town, with the misses, dog and a load of shopping .......... so it certainly picked its moment to about.

However, I'm starting to wonder if my latest tale of woe is actually unrelated to the torque convertor / gearbox issue as after abandoning it last night in town I recalled that earlier in the day it had ever so briefly run lumpy when I first started it and had a dead pedal (accelerator), no warning lights, just a bit rough. After turning it off and trying again it started and ran fine and I thought nothing especially about it after running round in it all day. However, when it went nuclear it did the same thing only this time all the warning lights came on and so I kind of blocked out the possibility it was related.

So when I went back to it this morning with the intention of getting it recovered to the garage who, co-incidentally, already had it booked in for Tuesday morning. I figured what have I got to lose and so after weighing up my options, now with two cars in the same back street, I gave it a start up and hey presto no rough idle and no warning lights at all. So rather than mess about with RAC or whatever I figured I'd drive it the 2.2 miles across town to the garage (which was helpfully closed) and decided to leave it there ready for Tuesday. Car drove fine, no signs of any gearbox issues and no sign of any rough running.

So I have a suspicion that this could be a totally separate problem and is more likely to be MAF or some other interference with the intake? There's no physical signs of anything having changed with the gearbox issues I previously described (a shudder under load) so could I be right and the two things are unrelated?

If there was a transmission issue that flagged a fault on the car would it result in the Christmas tree of warning lights and rough idle, no pedal, etc ....

Hopefully the garage will look up the codes Tuesday and I'll get some clarity.

Jon

Hello, thought I'd post a bit of an update.

So first of all just to address the random breakdown - the car went into the garage who believed it to have been down to a " high pressure at fuel rail" fault. all the codes were cleared and the guys suggested it might have been a dodgy electrical connection to the sensor - I've been driving it since with no reoccurrence so touch wood all good on that score. They have serviced it today, all fluids, both diffs etc, so £800+ later at least its had a bit of love.

So back to the transmission issues. The garage that did my service were kind enough to point me in the direction of a specialist not very far away who I have been to see. They are clearly the guys to work this all out as I've decided that rather than jumping to conclusions about what might be wrong I need some old school diagnostics to work out what is going on. There's no point me trying mud at the wall solutions like a flush etc when really what is needed here is someone to accurately fault find the issue.

I've convinced myself that its not the gearbox from a "mechanical" point of view so I'm hopeful its not a rebuild situation. I think D3Jon might be on the right lines with the lock-up solenoid scenario - time will tell.

So, its booked in next Wednesday for a couple of hours worth of diagnostics which I'm hoping will point me in the right direction.

Will let you know.

Jon

Glad you're getting to the bottom of this issue. Will be interesting to see what they find! Fingers crossed it's nothing too expensive.

To be fair though, at 200K miles the gearbox has done a lot of work! If you had to exchange it for a good low mileage used one, it would make sense now that you've had other work done to the car.

Keep us all posted, I do hope it's just a solenoid issue, but prepare for the worst and hope for the best!

Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

Hello chaps,

I never finalised this thread so thought it worth letting you know the outcome for any poor unfortunate souls who may encounter the same issues.

First things first, the breakdown was definitely a separate issue and NOT related to the gearbox. The garage I had it with believed it was possibly a bad connection to the fuel rail pressure sensor, they have cleaned it up and so far (touch wood) its not happened again.

And so to the gearbox. It went to the specialist that was recommended to me and they had it for 2 hours to try to diagnose what was likely to be going on. The conclusion was that it did need a rebuild as it was likely to be seals etc that have failed internally - the only thing that slightly bothered me was that they suggested it would need to be "sent off" - which was a bit odd as my normal garage said these guys were gearbox specialists. Anyhow, a week went by and they made no attempt to contact me as promised with the quote, disappointing. Having thought about the "send it off" comment a bit more I decided to find someone who would do the complete job start to finish.

I ended up finding Re-Engineered Transmissions in Rayleigh (https://reengineeredtransmissions.co.uk/) who, whilst not the easiest option from the midlands, were very confidence inspiring on the phone when I spoke with them. They had the car for a week or so, removed the transmission, rebuilt it including new solenoids and TC refresh and did the oil pump as a preventative measure (which I agreed to) - total cost was £3k

Whilst this was not the ideal solution, at least I hadn't wasted a few hundred pounds first by flushing the fluid or some other temporary measure that would have ended up with a similar result.

You may ask why didn't I just throw a second hand unit off eBay in it - well it would have still cost north of £1k with labour and fluids etc etc - and I might have ended up in the same place 6 months later.

All in all at least its done now and I can move onto the next issue.

Jon

Great news Jon - what is it like to drive now? 2007 Range Rover Vogue 3.6 TDV8

Hi, I couldn’t really say it’s any different to how you would expect it to drive other than obviously all the old issues have gone with a far more responsive car again.

I’m happy I did it, obviously not happy about the £3k but what can you expect with a 16/17 year old car with 200,000 miles - I get my fair use out if it.

Jon

Thanks for the update, glad you got it sorted! Understand fully your comment re. the £500 secondhand option - for peace of mind / warranty I think you've gone down the right route!  1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

Yeap and I have to say that you called it right early on D3Jon.

I think I was invested in some wishful thinking but I guess that's normal!!

J

 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)