What would you do?
Advice sought

OK - I'll try to keep this short.

Dec 3rd 2024 my 2018, 42k mileage L405 RangeRover Phev400 loses all power and electrics and comes to halt.

it is ferried to a local dealer who diagnoses that the most likely problem is the alternator needs replacing.

BACKGROUND: I bought the car (NOT from Land Rover dealer in July 2024) when it had done only 35k and could see from its service & mileage record there were two years (COVID) when it had hardly been used so not a full service history. Apparently the owner had died and the family had not sold the car immediately. It was immaculate outside and under the hood and drove like a dream for five months and just over 7k miles until this breakdown.

First problem: The Main Dealer (who I trust as I have used successfully them for many years) can't get a replacement LR alternator until the end of Jan 2025. I wait patiently and come Jan 27th it arrives and is fitted (£4,000) but...

Second Problem: once fitted it exposes another problem - the PHEV 12Kw battery is no longer charging and needs replacing (£10,700) but dealer asks JLR for a contribution as car has done nowhere near the 60K guarantee and although the car's service history is not complete there is a genuine reason - its not done the miles it should have done for a six year old car, besides, the PHEV battery is a non-servicable part. He also tells them I am a loyal Land Rover Customer having had Land Rovers for the last 25 years! They decline to help in anyway. I know, I know .... its outrageous yet Land Rover are within their rights to refuse financial assitance, SO I tell him to order the part anyway and I will pay.

Third Problem: These replacement Phev batteries are on back order and no ETA so no knowing when it will be fixed.

I found a second hand battery on Ebay for £3,500 but dealer says he can't fit that and wouldn't recommend because the history might be dubious - he's right - it might be.

I have been without the car for over two months now yet still paying insurance / road tax and there is no indication of how much longer it could be before its returned to me.

I feel totally let down by JLR yet they have me 'over a barrel' so to speak.

I could rant and moan but I don't think it will get me anywhere.

I am genuinely interested....
What would you do? 2023 - July 2024 Brown Discovery 5 HSE
2017-2019 White Discovery 4 HSE
2015-2017 Phoenix Orange Discovery Sport HSE, Black Pack, black headlining
2013-2015 Black Evoque Pure Tech
2012-2013 Black Discovery 4 XS
2006-2012 Silver Discovery 3 SE
2003-2006 Yellow Freelander - Kalahari
1997-2000 Silver Freelander SE Station Wagon

What a depressing situation, both as regards the vehicle and LR's approach to your predicament. My sympathy to you. Your post is useful to anyone thinking about buying a hybrid RR anyway.

My experience of LR parts on back order is that one is not given any indication at all when they might arrive, which makes decisions much more difficult. You could ask the dealer to press LR for progress and an indication when the battery might be ready.

If you really like the car and would be happy to have it back and use it for an extended period once fixed, I would try to organise some alternative transport pending repair, you may have something already, or could hire a car or even buy something, and then wait. With the spend already incurred and anticipated in mind the dealer might be willing to lend you something.

I wouldn't use the second hand battery.

If you are disenchanted with the car or would not want to keep it longer term I would see what the dealer would give as a trade-in as it stands (bearing in mind the dealer could eventually fix it at trade prices) and see if they can find you an acceptable replacement. It sounds like you have a good relationship with the dealer so they may want to be reasonable and maintain that for the future. There is maybe a question whether the alternator was not the problem at all and you have spent £4,000 needlessly, but that sort if thing is hard to prove and maybe not worth trying. But it could be a factor in any deal you do. Only Range Rovers since 1988

Evening RSC,

I am sorry to hear of your ordeal, I have too been a loyal customer for the last 30+ years (14 brand new Range Rovers) various Discoveries & Discovery Sports and Evoques, but I too can confirm that, that means nothing to Land Rover.

I am sure if I was a iphone wielding tick toker or whatever they call themselves with a million followers maybe they would be interested. I had a similar experience, the sum total of there good will gesture against a £25k problem was £500. It would have been less insulting if they offered me nothing, and too rub salt in the wound it took 6 yes 6 months to cough up too.

My advice is, get it fixed and get into a pure petrol or diesel Range Rover, something that doesn't have a battery. My view is that if you are brave enough to buy a electric version, probably best to sell it before the warranty expires or to lease it, so its someone elses problem. I can see this happening a lot in the next few years.

I feel your pain, I would suspect fighting LR will be futile and just cost you even more cash. And assuming the warranty on the new battery is another 6 years keep it for 5 and then trade her in for a pure petrol or diesel before they become extinct.

I had a friend who had a similar experience and in fact the identical problem to yours, he opted for his battery to be refurbished, from memory it also came with a warranty as well and was about 25% of the cost of a new battery. He kept it for a couple of years before he went back to pure petrol.

Sorry not much help but my few words of wisdom or moans whichever way you look at it. I wish you all the luck in getting sorted.

These were the chaps my friend used, worth a try, i have no affiliation nor can I personally vouch for them but seems like might be worth a call.

https://cedarelectric.co.uk/electric-vehicle-fault-repairs/

Thanks both for your prompt replies,

It is really helpful to get advice and opinions from people other than family and dealers!!

I will call JLR tomorrow to see if they respond differently to me but also to see if they can speed up the delivery of a battery - I’m not holding my breath on either!!!

My only other thought was to ask the dealer how much he’d give me for it ‘as is’ against one of their other vehicles. I wish I could avoid this but it’s kind of a loss limiting situation now - coupled with the unknown of how long it could be: I’ve already wasted two months insurance.

I will contact the battery repair company for an opinion and also look at the cheap runaround option.

Thanks again for your time and thoughts - I will of course keep you informed as to what happens.

If anyone else has thoughts or advice - hey, I’m all ears!!! 2023 - July 2024 Brown Discovery 5 HSE
2017-2019 White Discovery 4 HSE
2015-2017 Phoenix Orange Discovery Sport HSE, Black Pack, black headlining
2013-2015 Black Evoque Pure Tech
2012-2013 Black Discovery 4 XS
2006-2012 Silver Discovery 3 SE
2003-2006 Yellow Freelander - Kalahari
1997-2000 Silver Freelander SE Station Wagon

Hi RSC

Did the alternator change expose another problem - or was it OK all along and didn’t need changing in the first place? I’d first get this decided - as I suspect it’s the latter and you’ve just paid £4K to get you no further in solving your issue. Btw I’m assuming it’s an inverter/charging pack not an alternator if it cost £4,000 to change.

On the HV battery - you can have your battery tested and assessed independently. Personally, I would not take an LR dealers word that it’s no good and needs changing. Essentially all they are is a bunch of battery cells, busbars and a battery management system, BMS. According to latest fleet data HV batteries are on average degrading less than 2% per year, so getting a 15-20 year lifespan (albeit reduced range) is feasible. If a BMS fails/has an issue, the automatic response should not be to replace the whole battery. Manufacturers and their dealers really need to solve this ASAP and either have the BMS separate, or as a serviceable/replacement part.

There are people skilled enough to look at your RR and troubleshoot it. Problem is I suspect you’d need to flatbed it to them.

Steve G,

I think you could well be right - on both counts!
However, I am not sure how I would know 😵‍💫 I am not an engineer / technician in any way shape or form!

I also think you are right about flat bedding the vehicle somewhere else to get it assessed but where? I have looked up EV specialists on Dr Google only to be swamped by names of garages I have no knowledge of nor that they will be able to fix it or if it would be a similar cost

I’m gonna try ringing one or two local ev specialists this morning but I’m suspecting they will say - “not sure until we see it” or similar.

Thanks for your thoughts - it is useful to hear others’ ideas. 2023 - July 2024 Brown Discovery 5 HSE
2017-2019 White Discovery 4 HSE
2015-2017 Phoenix Orange Discovery Sport HSE, Black Pack, black headlining
2013-2015 Black Evoque Pure Tech
2012-2013 Black Discovery 4 XS
2006-2012 Silver Discovery 3 SE
2003-2006 Yellow Freelander - Kalahari
1997-2000 Silver Freelander SE Station Wagon

Steveg wrote:

Hi RSC
Personally, I would not take an LR dealers word that it’s no good and needs changing. Essentially all they are is a bunch of battery cells, busbars and a battery management system, BMS.

Anyone got his number???

I did note however that he had a couple of factors in his favour,

a crane
a fully tooled garage
a Bosch Level 4 qualification in EV handling
Specialist PPE for EV work
several days to complete work
[list=]

Easy when you know how - reminded me of when I was a kid and I tried to make the things I saw on Blue Peter - mine always looked like the stuff I'd started with had a bad paint job and bits falling off so I'm not going to attempt it.

Car due back this week now - will update with details when I have it !  2023 - July 2024 Brown Discovery 5 HSE
2017-2019 White Discovery 4 HSE
2015-2017 Phoenix Orange Discovery Sport HSE, Black Pack, black headlining
2013-2015 Black Evoque Pure Tech
2012-2013 Black Discovery 4 XS
2006-2012 Silver Discovery 3 SE
2003-2006 Yellow Freelander - Kalahari
1997-2000 Silver Freelander SE Station Wagon

This dealer got his hybrid battery fixed for circa £5k by this company

https://www.bossway.co.uk/pages/ev

?si=-OYbchJps6aufiZV

Interesting!
I've watched a few of his videos before and does seem like a regular kinda guy who likes his Land Rovers!

And... I concur with him that Hybrid is not a good choice unless you have very deep pockets and an alternative vehicle to use while waiting for the repair - and I'm not bring sarcastic.

My main advice is after this next section - if you don't need to know the detail skip to that bit...!

To update my situation...

I had the battery replaced at a Land Rover dealership. Why?
1. I hadn't heard of this company and very little about other possible solutions.
2. Repairs done by non-LR dealers are normally 12 month warranties - LR is six years for the battery or 60,000 miles
3. Working, my car was worth just over £30,000 ( i bought it for £35k) and had only done 40k and all very good apart from the battery. With no working battery it was worth £17,000. The dealer could source a new battery from LR and fit it for about £11,000 - the wait for the battery was unknown but ended up being less than a week.

So either I lost £13,000 on a trade in or I spent £11,000 getting an otherwise very desirable vehicle back up and running. After being without the vehicle for two months while actual faults were identified, I didn't want to have to source a replacement car again and put in another £18k to do that - afterall I could get bitten again!

I've had the car back now for two weeks and all seems well apart from one or two momentary power lags which seem to have gone now - petrol sitting in the tank too long prior to being fixed - who knows! Battery management by the car is working well - possibly better than before - early days.

I paid £11,000 for it to be fixed, (£7,800 for the EV battery, £2,000 VAT and the rest (Just under £2k) was labour - its a long complicated and specialist task and dealerships aren't cheap but it did come with a long warranty.

My Main Advice.....

I love my Land Rovers but... I don't love Jaguar Land Rover. Their disdain for the customer experience and the dealerships that cover up the poor customer service attitude JLR have is APPALLING. If you read this forum for a while you will hear just how badly Land Rover support customers with 'young cars' that have huge bills because something catastrophic has happened through no fault of the customer.

I have not mentioned which dealership I dealt with because I don't want them to get any hassle from JLR. Why? Because they were great with me - there was no BS, just facts. They weren't nice facts but everything I was told was as accurate as it could be given the situation and the terrible support they received from JLR. They were professional enough to not be explicit about their own disappointment, but their faces, body language and tone spoke volumes - the dealerships are dealing not just with us the customers, but a hierachical company whose business model is not fir for the 21st century - they will go to the wall because of there persistently poor reputation and feedback from customers like me.

Either JLR don't care about the vehicles once sold or they are just selling as much as they can because they recognise there is no future for them in the developing EV and ICE market - a kind of 'make the money while you can attitude'.

In researching the possible workarounds for my situation I have come to realise that if you are going to buy a Land Rover you had better have very deep pockets and access to another car while you wait for JLR to supply parts without indication of how long you will be waiting.

Please don't mis-understand - I have and always will like the look and feel of driving these cars - I may even buy another in the future but it certainly won't be EV / Hybrid. And I certainly won;t be expecting any favours or even good treatment from JLR despite having driven their vehicles for over 25 years.

SO...buy a Land Rover but make sure you have at least the cost of the vehicle again to keep it running - I'm not exagerrating - I speak from experience.  2023 - July 2024 Brown Discovery 5 HSE
2017-2019 White Discovery 4 HSE
2015-2017 Phoenix Orange Discovery Sport HSE, Black Pack, black headlining
2013-2015 Black Evoque Pure Tech
2012-2013 Black Discovery 4 XS
2006-2012 Silver Discovery 3 SE
2003-2006 Yellow Freelander - Kalahari
1997-2000 Silver Freelander SE Station Wagon