What is this known as in RAVE and where do I find it?

Throwing up a few codes at the moment
P0343
P1300
P0011
Also showing a P1709 PNP switch out of Self Test Range, though now I've cleared the codes it's not even in pending anymore. No doubt it will return!

Sensor replacement is probably favoured option as it seems cheap, but the VANOS solenoid is mentioned a lot for these faults in various posts elsewhere (BMW threads) and I'd like to research it - sounds like the tappets are shot at the moment! Really rattles...  Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

the RAVE download link is in the wiki.. ... - .- -.




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I've got Rave - just cant find VANOS anywhere... Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

To rule out or confirm the Camshaft Position Sensor you just need to swap them between banks.
The current fault codes you have are for bank 1, if it moves to bank 2 when you swap you know it's the sensor at fault.
If it doesn't move then there's a timing issue on bank 1, either VANOS or tensioners/chains.

Thanks Jock - good idea...

bit of negative progress today...

engine sounding like a tap-dancing centipede... oil was low again, despite topping it up - saw the oil light flickering on the way back from Manchester today, though there's no leak that I can determine. Topped it up again today and now I get the "STOP! ENGINE..." message - though I can't read it all as my display's goosed! Only comes on once the engine's been revved up a bit. Seems to be happy sitting on tick-over for a while, but still rattles like tumble drier full of spoons.

No errors pertaining to oil pressure coming up on OBD though I do have 0333 and 0328 Knock sensors showing.

Guess I'm going to have to drop the sump and check the oil pump?

Has this (or similar) happened to anyone else and perhaps guide me in the right direction....

PS - no ramps, no pit and my AS isn't working to lif the car! this just gets better!  Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

Hmmmm...doesn't sound good!
From your symptoms I would hazard a guess at a timing chain issue which is upsetting the VANOS.
Drop the sump and check for broken plastic bits from the timing chain guides.
You won't be able to see the oil pump as you have to drop the diff and upper part of the sump to get to it but if there's plastic bits in the sump you'll need to replace the guides anyway so major surgery required.
I'm in the process of doing mine and a VANOS rebuild...well I'm putting off doing it but have all the parts and tools ready to go.
What is a bit perplexing is the loss of oil, if you can't see a leak it must be being burnt.
Take the engine cover off and have a good look around, oil can get in the spark plug holes from leaking rocker cover gaskets causing misfires. The PCV system at the rear of the engine often suffers from rot from the oil fumes and needs attention (tell tale oil leaks from the transmission bell mouth).
The above though won't give a low oil pressure unless the oil level is low.
Low oil pressure does indicate a more serious issue, it's possible the VANOS has had enough and sprung a leak, it does operate at extremely high oil pressures so a leak there might cause overall oil pressure issues if the system is low on oil.

Thanks Jock

No blue smoke so it's not being burnt...

edit -

found this and am now scared less!

How do I know which engine I have as apparently there are some BMW units without VANOS.

This post sounds like *some* relief, but the oil pressure issue on mine is really bothering me

This post seems to make sense with regards to my rattle... I can but hope!

Last edit - promise!

Sounds interesting solution! Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

The early Range Rover L322 4.4 V8 engine is a BMW M62TUB44 unit which has single VANOS (BMW's variable valve timing) on the intake cams.

The oil pressure issue could be debris from the failed timing chain guides getting stuck in the oil pump strainer reducing the flow although that would be unusual.
Earlier M60 engines did have issues with the nuts and bolts securing the oil pump coming loose resulting in low pressure but M62 are not known for the problem....that doesn't rule it out though.
As you are going to drain the oil and drop the sump then it's also worth checking the oil filter too, cheap pattern part oil filters have been known to collapse creating an oil starving blockage.

If it's throwing up the error codes you have quoted and are getting low oil pressure then you have a serious issue, much more than sticky hydraulic tappets (the last link in your post).
I strongly suggest you do not drive it like it as you could kill the engine.

i think I've found the source of the problem(s)

Took the sump off and look what I found!

without taking the covers off, do I know which guide(s) this is(are)?
How safe is it to drive with the chains rattling?

i have has this happen to mine, (i bought mine like this!!!!) i fixed it....and its around £700 LR parts plus a good few hours labour, and you will need camshaft setting tools. these are £400 its all done with engine in situ. you also need a huge bar to undo front crank damper nut. search google for 'm62 vanos procceedure' or similar to see how to remove the front timing cover, and replace guides. its a big job, BUT, you are still able to use this engine, if you had revved it too much, it would have jumped a tooth, and it would have died! your timing cover will be ground away on the front, hence the aluminium swarf. its still useable, if its not 'holed' most swarf will be blocked in the oil filter now. this is the m62 engines, weak point nylon guide one side nylon bonded to ali other side, and centre.
advice: get on phone to a bmw indy.

.sorry, i cant do much typing here at present.
heres my original post... http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic14323....+chain+m62
i have some pics somewhere.

Many thanks

Found this... still looks scary!

 Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

We'll there's your problem, the timing guides...or lack of them!
It explains the oil pressure problem given the amount of debris. As the rpm increases it tries to suck in more oil and pulls the plastic bits against the strainer partially blocking it, when the rpm drops they fall back again. Hopefully it hasn't harmed the engine and with the bits cleaned out of the sump and oil strainer plus a new oil filter it'll return to normal pressure.
The shiny aluminum bits in the sump are from the timing chain guides, once the plastic goes the chain runs on the metal guide behind it...obviously having metal particles circulating in your oil is not the best idea although the filter should take care of it.

It is a big job to change the guides and hence, one of the reasons I've put off doing mine, although mine doesn't have any broken bits in the sump yet just an annoying ticking which sounds like a flapping broken guide.
I have heard the book time from Land Rover to replace the guides is a staggering 60 hours! There is no way it should ever take that long but it does explain the high quotes you get from dealers to do the job (circa £2k+).
If you don't want to tackle it yourself then find an Indy garage that has done it before, either Land Rover or BMW...a BMW indy will no doubt have had more experience with this problem.

There are 3 guides, left, right and one that sits at the top in the 'V'. It's a false economy if you don't replace them all. It might also be worth replacing the chain itself as it can stretch over time or be damaged running against the metal of the guides once the plastic has gone.
While also in there you can also rebuild the VANOS gears, Besian Systems in the US supplies kits of seals and detailed instructions on how to rebuild them, again though not essential if you just have timing chain problems.

DIY, including the timing tools, new timing guides, new chain, new secondary chain guides, VANOS rebuild kit plus all other sundry parts (including other VANOS seals etc.) I think my box of bits/parts came to £1200. If you are just doing the timing chain guides it'll probably be around £800-£900...less if you hire the timing tools. That's just parts, not labour.

Here's a not too bad a guide using a specific make timing tool on a slightly older M62TU engine, although they are replacing the guides on the secondary chains too (chains between inlet and exhaust cams) which is not essential.
http://germanautosolutions.com/diy_tech/va...ls_diy.php
This guy also explains it quite well, again albeit on an earlier non VANOS M62 engine (VANOS engines need the proper timing tools):


As for being safe to drive...well it is right up until it jumps a tooth or two which might mean valves meeting pistons and terminal damage. It's a case of how lucky do you feel?!
Bare in mind it's already throwing up error codes as the timing is so far out...all I can say if it was me I wouldn't drive it but I have other transport, I realise other people have different circumstances.

(Just to add if your oil pressure problem is sorted with the clean up of the sump etc. the VANOS and timing errors may well disappear as the VANOS needs very high oil pressure to work correctly.)

IMHO you would be mad to even start the engine, let alone drive it any further, it will continue to shred the timing cover and dump swarf into the engine.... Pete

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Picking up the parts from the dealers tomorrow- then fitting. TBH I don't have the time or money to replace all three and vanos etc. I have to fix just what's broken. In the new year I may well revisit the other guides and vanos, but as I have to work outside, this kind of job isn't one for naff weather!

I can see a portable gazebo on my Xmas list...

Using my wife's mini one cooper auto when she;s not driving it. Although it's one hell of a drive, it's not ideal - I'm 6'4" and not fitting in there too well... I *need* this one back on the road ASAP.  Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

Very helpful guy at my "Local" dealers sent me these so I could work out form the fragments which guide had broken^h^h^h^h^h^h shattered

Click image to enlarge