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Stacker



Member Since: 04 May 2016
Location: Theale, Reading
Posts: 479

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover HSE Td6 Adriatic Blue

Tried this today, probably just made it worse!
My 2002 seat doesn't come apart like yours!! 

Post #421574 7th Jan 2017 11:13am
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andyrosehome



Member Since: 06 Jan 2018
Location: South Wales
Posts: 9

United Kingdom 2005 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 V8 Cairns Blue

Superb post thank you so much! My drivers seat leather was still in decent condition but had gone slack and was starting to crease so before it started to wear the colour off at the creases, I decided to take the plunge and renew the foam. It also made sense to swap the passenger and driver seat cushion leather so that the outer edges become the inner less visible edges and although that's obviously twice the work, both seats now look pretty much like new especially after a clean and good coat of leather conditioner. Worst part of the job are the aptly named hog rings, they really are pigs even with proper pliers! I found that the one electrical connector for the headrest motor can be reached without removing the upper backrest cover so that saves a lot of work. Just follow the cable up into the cavity and you can just about get 2 hands in there to disconnect the plug. The armrest can be left installed too if you only need to access the bottom seat cushion but without this guide I'm certain this job would have been much more difficult. Took my son and I five hours to complete both front seats but its well worth the effort as the results are a much more comfortable seat as well as the awesome cosmetic improvement. Thumbs Up

Post #463505 6th Jan 2018 12:14pm
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mm289



Member Since: 11 Mar 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 207

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 V8 Ipanema Sand

Cool, glad it was useful Thumbs Up

Cheers, 2011 TDV8 AB
2006 TD6 AB (Gone to Wales)

Post #463534 6th Jan 2018 6:37pm
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Andy



Member Since: 23 Feb 2009
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2917

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Im just tackling this job now and I’ve found a broken pair of wires. I can’t see the rest of them as they disappear into the seat squab.
Any ideas how I can retrieve them?

Post #501650 15th Jan 2019 1:17pm
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mm289



Member Since: 11 Mar 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 207

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 V8 Ipanema Sand

Only thing I can suggest is removing the seat cover from the squab to see if you can find the other end of the wires. This is assuming the part that is cut is the part that connects to the heater element.

Why would someone cut them..... just wondering if the seat cover has been replaced at some point with a non heated seat one before your ownership???

You have to find the ends of the heating element anyway so pulling off the cover is probably the way to go....

Cheers,

Paul. 2011 TDV8 AB
2006 TD6 AB (Gone to Wales)

Post #501652 15th Jan 2019 1:26pm
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Andy



Member Since: 23 Feb 2009
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2917

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

They haven’t been cut. I think they have been severed inside the seat, possibly wear or caught on the metal frame.

I have tied the wires together and the seat works now. I’m not sure what section is connected to the wires but it all warms up nicely now

Post #501680 15th Jan 2019 3:46pm
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JohnJ



Member Since: 22 Apr 2016
Location: Varese
Posts: 41

Italy 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Santorini Black
question

Hi, thanks for the write up

is it possible just to remove the seat cover without removing the seats? 2011 Vogue 4.4 Santorini black
prior:
2010 Vogue 4.4 Buckingham blue
2007 Vogue 3.6 TDV8, Stornoway grey remap
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Post #572269 9th Nov 2020 1:58pm
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JohnJ



Member Since: 22 Apr 2016
Location: Varese
Posts: 41

Italy 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

no! impossible, i tried. 2011 Vogue 4.4 Santorini black
prior:
2010 Vogue 4.4 Buckingham blue
2007 Vogue 3.6 TDV8, Stornoway grey remap
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Post #579408 12th Jan 2021 8:20am
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JohnJ



Member Since: 22 Apr 2016
Location: Varese
Posts: 41

Italy 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

I managed to remove the seat, change the seat cover that was ripped. Replug all connectors, refit the seat, and connect the battery.

Move the seat back and forward to screw it back on with the 4 bolts.

But the next day the electric adjustments would not move. After 20 mins driving they started working again,

today again not working. I am afraid i may have broken some wires or connectors. the problem is now i cannot remove the seat to check the connectors because i cannot access the 4 bolts since i cannot slide the seat back and forward to expose the bolts using the electric motor.

anyone has any suggestion how to remove the seat now? Big Cry 2011 Vogue 4.4 Santorini black
prior:
2010 Vogue 4.4 Buckingham blue
2007 Vogue 3.6 TDV8, Stornoway grey remap
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Post #579409 12th Jan 2021 8:24am
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mm289



Member Since: 11 Mar 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 207

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 V8 Ipanema Sand

The most likely place for an electrical failure will be the switches or the connectors I would have thought. Can you pull the switch panel with the seat in place and go through the cables with a meter checking for continuity? Also do the same with the connectors you can access?

Or at a push, even trying wiggling or moving connectors with the switches pressed so you can try and find which one is causing the problem?

Cheers,

MM 2011 TDV8 AB
2006 TD6 AB (Gone to Wales)

Post #579418 12th Jan 2021 9:34am
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JohnJ



Member Since: 22 Apr 2016
Location: Varese
Posts: 41

Italy 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

thanks, in the tight space under the seat i tried poking all cables but no results,

i see the motor to move the seat aft/fwd is on the back and there are cables providing power (4 cables) as opposed to the passenger motor, 2 cables.....

i believe one could cut the power cables to the motor, power the motor independently and electrically move the seat aft/fwd to expose the 4 bolts so to remove the seat and then properly check all the connectors....

but this is above my level so I will take it to the indie and see there, will get parking sensor fixed too hopefully as well there Smile

i will update 2011 Vogue 4.4 Santorini black
prior:
2010 Vogue 4.4 Buckingham blue
2007 Vogue 3.6 TDV8, Stornoway grey remap
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Post #579419 12th Jan 2021 9:52am
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JohnJ



Member Since: 22 Apr 2016
Location: Varese
Posts: 41

Italy 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

magically when i went to start up the car to drive to the indie, the seat would move. Now i dont know if it was the sun and the temperature helped because this morning it was -5 and it was not working and now is +5, maybe the plastic cables got more flexibility and made better contact. In any case I took the opportunity to slide the seat back and forth to remove the bolts to remove the seat and then check the cables.

Seems there is the big cable that comes up from the cable pit under the seat that I may have positioned with the fold angled towards the back of the car, this may have prevented the cable to slide easily on top of the cover of the cable pit while the seat slides forward, and maybe the cable partially got stuck and partly disconnected the connectors ...

now this is what i suppose happened. not sure though.

Nevertheless i folded the main cable the opposite way and checked it would not get tangled in the seat connectors when sliding the seat on top....

forgot to mention that this main cable had part of the cover consumed by the sliding motion of the seat on top of it and i had put some tape to cover the exposed small cables inside while putting back the seat for the first time.

in any case i bolted back the seat and now all seems to work fine, for now,

lets see tomorrow morning.... 2011 Vogue 4.4 Santorini black
prior:
2010 Vogue 4.4 Buckingham blue
2007 Vogue 3.6 TDV8, Stornoway grey remap
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Post #579444 12th Jan 2021 3:26pm
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Thxxx



Member Since: 09 Nov 2021
Location: Truro
Posts: 7

United Kingdom 2005 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Bonatti Grey

Resurrection of the praise for this post, thank you so much for detailing it out so well, and providing a solution. Mine was exactly the same, the grey wire had come off the element, so some solder, shrink wrap and putting back together has done the trick. For anyone else trying this if it seems like there is no element, keep digging on the right hand side (at least mine was) of where the wire ends, it will be there somewhere.

Also, is it possible to ignore this element and just add the later ‘pad’ type in between the foam and the leather stitching? I can’t find if anyone has tried it, and thought it might be an option if this happens again. I also considered it may be too much material to get through to be worth it.

Post #613969 27th Nov 2021 1:55pm
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knares



Member Since: 22 Jun 2017
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 698

Australia 2005 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zambezi Silver

Thumbs Up RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar

Post #614097 29th Nov 2021 4:28am
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andyrosehome



Member Since: 06 Jan 2018
Location: South Wales
Posts: 9

United Kingdom 2005 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 V8 Cairns Blue

Hi folks. I know this is a fairly old string but it is so useful that I felt I should add an update to my addition back in 2018 whilst still paying homage to mm289 who created the original how to in the first place. I used this brilliant write up again yesterday on my driver’s seat after the heated seat stopped working, indicated by my heater lights coming on for a few seconds when selected but then going out again. I would add a note of caution that removing the seat leather and foam is not to be under estimated but if you are reasonably handy then you can save yourself a lot of money especially if you want to get your heated seat element fixed for very little outlay. This is a long, labour-intensive job which took me 9 hours in total so be warned, but there is nothing particularly difficult.
So, once you have used mm289’s write up to get the seat apart and have the seat squab leather and foam removed, you will see from the jumble of wires and plugs that the squab has 3 separate heater elements. 1 large middle element and 2 smaller side elements.

Click image to enlarge



Mine had failed on the outer edge where it gets the most wear from getting in and out of the car but the process of finding the break is the same for all 3 elements and for the seat back if that is faulty on yours. No need to remove the hog rings just yet. First of all, separate each of the elements by unplugging the 2 pin connectors at the back of the squab. Connect a meter set to continuity and test each individual element for continuity. 2 of mine were intact and reading 0.5ohms and the 3rd was open circuit. At this point it is worth following the insulated wires from the connector plug of the failed element into the backing fabric and foam that is bonded to the leather and carefully trimming the fabric with a sharp blade for 20mm or so at a time until you come to the point where the un-insulated silver wire element is joined to the insulated wire. This is protected by a blob of hard adhesive stuck between the leather and the foam backing.




This seems to be a common point for failure and is well worth testing before removing the hog rings to remove the main seat foam from the leather assembly. To test the joint simply connect the same continuity tester, one probe to the plug and the other to the bare silver element wire. Do this where both wires connect to the bare element and if both joints are ok, confirm the element has failed by connecting both probes to the silver element wire at both wire connections. If the result from measuring both silver wires is open circuit then you now have confirmed that your element has failed.
This means that it is time to remove the foam support by cutting the hog rings. Once the thick seat foam is out of the way, lay the leather out on a flat surface leather side down so you can see the fabric backing like in my first image above. Connect one meter probe to one of the 2 pin connectors of the failed element (or the silver element wire if that is easier). connect the other probe to a sharp sewing needle either with tape or a croc clip etc. Now you need go to the furthest part of the element you are working on and draw a line (1) with a pen/pencil on the backing fabric that crosses where the element will be.

Click image to enlarge


(The yellow squiggly line shows roughly where the element wires run to the best of my knowledge)

Then start at one edge of the fabric using your drawn line as a guide and gently insert the needle into the foam backing repeatedly moving 0.5mm at a time along the drawn line until you make contact with the wire element indicated by continuity on your meter. Yes, this is a labour-intensive task so you may need several hours to find the break. I found that placing my finger under the leather at the point where I was inserting the needle allowed me to feel when it touched the leather so I could avoid spiking through the leather itself as that would be visible once you rebuild the seat.
Once you have made contact with the element using the needle probe, you will know which half of the element has the break but of course you may have to do this with both ends of the element. You could use a jumper wire to connect both element ends to one probe to test both halves at once until you make contact with the needle and then separate the element ends to find out which half of the element has the break. Then you divide the broken side in half with another pen line (2 above) and repeat the probing process until you establish which quarter of the element has the break, then again (3 above) with another line to find which eighth and so on (4 above) until you feel comfortable cutting the fabric to expose the remaining element to find the break. Once you find the break, you can pull a small amount of element to enable the ends to be soldered together. Then re-test the element for continuity and you should have around 0.5ohms resistance after repair. After I had fixed one break in my element, I still had 1.8ohms resistance so I repeated the procedure and found another partial break which was causing a hot spot and would have broken soon if I had left it.
The repair can be buried under the foam and the cut fabric repaired with duct tape. Reassembly is just the revers although the hog rings are a nightmare even with the right tools so I did wonder if zip ties could be used as an easier alternative although I did persevere with the hog rings.
I also wondered if connecting 12v to the broken element and use an induction sensor pen to search for the break might work but I may have just exposed how limited my electrical knowledge really is so I welcome any thoughts on an easier way. Hope this helps someone. My heated seat works perfectly again so the long task was worth the effort especially when new seat leather with element are heading up towards £2000 just for 1 seat squab if you can find one!

Post #671190 14th Aug 2023 9:11pm
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