I think part of the issue is there's no clear, concise directory or place of information. It's spread out over this thread and multiple pages.

Maybe if we had a list of what we know.. And what we actually need to do...a plan could be formulated and a 'team' put together? 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE - 'Black Betty'
2000 4.0 P38 HSE - 'Green Goblin' - Gone.
Audi..Mini..BMW..

in the lower glove box is the USB connector, this is what a dealer connects to when updating maps

https://www.jae.com/en/connectors/series/detail/id=64306

once the drive is connected your Satnav touchscreen (which has a very old 40GB IDE drive to store the maps) it asks for a Navteq license key, and this allows the map update

it can take over an hour or so to complete the update !


Some simple steps forward could be
1) source a ready made cable that uses the correct MX39 series connector
2) format an external 160GB ( or bigger) drive using NTFS
3) download latest maps from HERE.COM

NB if you have a 2013 RR you are in luck, and can get Q3/2019 maps for £169 - this map data is probably the same format as our older 2010 - 2012 HDD satnavs, but it would need a little bit of reverse engineering to get our old 40GB HDD satnavs updated

a KIWI editor is available from Datawest in Japan
https://travelgps.com.ua/soft/KIWIformatviewer.pdf

Latest Maps on the here.com website

https://here.navigation.com/product/Catalo...REEMEA/GBP

Last edited by pcourtney on 19th Sep 2022 9:49am. Edited 4 times in total

So ultimately, we're still not further forward for 2010-2012? 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE - 'Black Betty'
2000 4.0 P38 HSE - 'Green Goblin' - Gone.
Audi..Mini..BMW..

pcourtney wrote:

in the lower glove box is the USB connector, this is what a dealer connects the USB2 drive to when updating maps

I have not been able to get my hands on one of these Origin160 drives with the 15cm cable, so there is a possibility that the map data on it could be encrypted, it would be nice to know one way or another, to move the project on a little further

Last edited by pcourtney on 18th Sep 2022 2:03pm. Edited 1 time in total

Its not unrealistic that a 2-step process is required to obtain the map and then the car's system source the map from an attached drive rather than program the car to interact directly with the map provider. I'll see if the car will recognise a USB stick as to date it has been looking for a device from which to read.
The short lead may be to avoid transmission errors that can occur with large data volumes over longer leads. It could be worthwhile to use a longer USB3 compatible lead.

Edit: The Origin 160GB SATA drive was used in a lot of Toshiba notebooks at the time of our RRs so maybe just a package deal comprising of a Toshiba notebook with appropriate s/w and an Origin 160GB drive in an external hard drive case. The Origin 160GB drive was just a compatible SATA drive, which adds weight to the idea that the connection to the car is USB2.

Fitting a modified USB-A connector to the LR connector doesn't power a USB hub via my modified short USB lead and a USB stick fitted directly to my modified lead isn't recognised as an update device by the Nav update function. The USB stick contained the files of a nav update disc for a MY15 D4 just in case the stick was recognised as an update device.

If the socket is indeed a JAE MX39 series connector designed to operate to USB2 specifications but which doesn't accept a USB-A plug, it doesn't mean that the protocol used by our nav system is USB2. I expect the protocol is the previously stated Firewire and that the enclosure used to hold the hard drive supports Firewire.

I have a USB-A to 4-pin Firewire simple adapter lead but haven't followed-up with sourcing a Firewire interface.

If it was Firewire (which is full duplex) it would need 6 pins to work, as shown below



We have a socket that only only has 4 wires, and as far as I know the host MCU in our cars manufactured by Renesys does not support Firewire, the diagram on page 2 of this thread, showing the Socket Navigation wiring only has 4 wires ( not 6 ) , and wires 1 (white) and 2 (black) are missing from the Firewire 400 standard shown above



Last edited by pcourtney on 19th Sep 2022 9:50am. Edited 6 times in total

4-wire Firewire has always been supported for peripherals.

OK - but if Renesys have not provided Firewire support in the MCU that we use for the TSD ( Touch Screen Display) , how can it use Firewire protocol running over it at Full Duplex ?

but have just found a 4 pin Firewire diagram - so who knows

I haven't seen the spec sheet for the MCU so can't comment, but I haven't seen the nav system's pcb either to see what else might be on the pcb. I make an electronic device that uses a particular processor to do most of the work but feed the output though another IC to provide support not available on the main ICs.

so they could have added Firewire support to the TSD display pcb, that also has the Renesys MCU on it, highly possible

USBs work on an ACK/NAK protocol, while FireWire uses a DMA transfer protocol, DMA requires a processor on both sides of the data transfer, so what we need is an external drive that uses Firewire - do you have any Graeme ??

I'm reviving my interest in being able to load later maps via the Firewire connector.

Edit: I purchased a cheap used external HDD enclosure that has FW800 and USB 3.0 interfaces which has a new 500GB HDD fitted. I'll load both an ISO disc image and the extracted files from a 2015 map disc for a D4 to the HDD to see what messages a nav update attempt produces once I've sorted the connection to the RR's socket. If I can eventually load the 2015 maps then I'll acquire a current map disc to repeat the update.

That sounds like a plan. Fingers crossed !

Having been provided with copy of the 2014 LR publication
Information and Entertainment System - General Information - Navigation System Map Updates
which details the steps to load later maps to all LR satnav systems to that time including those required to update the MY10-12 HDD systems, I'm 100% sure that the process is to load the new maps to an external HDD which is then connected to the nav system to allow it to read files from the external HDD. The document uses the phrase External HD Service Tool Map Updates to describe the process and the pictures of the back of the device with its connectors discernible is identical to a Buffalo Technologies FireWire 400 external HDD currently advertised on ebay au.

I'll be endeavouring to source the appropriate mating MX39 nav system connector although JAE show that is only available on a harness. I intend contacting JAE within the next day or 2 seeking options.

If anyone knows the LR part number for the update tool or more importantly the FW cable then we may be able to have more of those leads manufactured. The original HDD has 6-pin FW400 sockets and adapters are available for FW800 to FW400 but I expect to purchase a 9-pin FW800 lead to use on my just-purchased FW800 HDD.

The LR external HDD uses USB 2.0 to connect to the diagnostic tool for loading the map files whereas my HDD uses USB 3.0 so map files would be transferred more quickly, but transfer from the HDD to the nav system will only be at the original FW400 speed. FW800 is backwards compatible with FW400.

Edit: An inquiry has been sent to JAE but I have subsequently found that in January last year JAE advised that it intended to cease production of the MX39 series of connectors by the end of the year due to low demand and aging production equipment so the mating connectors might not be available.