Sorry, but I find that extremely difficult to believe - I am on my 16th RR and have driven more miles than must in these vehicles - it’s usually the “have nots” that try and find reasons to justify why they cannot own one 2021 L405 Vogue SE 4.4 V8 DIESEL ~ #17

I have recently traded an 2011.5 L322 VSE for a 2014 L405 VSE and I have to say my L322 was near perfect for a 100,000 mile car - I am fastidious and had replaced all the suspension parts that wear and the 2011.5 VSE I sold was as good as they get - the 75,000 mile L405 I have bought is still work in progress but it’s better in almost every regard. they come from the same first owner who is a friend who looks after his cars but changes them when the miles rack up - as they do for himself this is a fair comparison.

You can feel the weight reduction in an L405 when you drive it
It stops and turns far better
It is smoother and quieter
It certainly retains its splendour and sense of occasion to me - in fact I feel more special in the L405 than the L322
Haven’t actually prodded the throttle hard ibn the L405 but it’s certainly no slower than the L322
I have the SDV8 and have never driven the 3.0 V6 but anecdotally I have heard few problems about the V8 but have read many worrying stories about the V6 - that’s not a statistically provern theory but a realistic view after doing research

Yes the L405 costs more money but I am convinced that by my measure at least there is value in the upgrade.

If it sounds like I am loving the later car - I am. If only LR could get their dealers to be as good as their cars I would be made up - but my local dealer is woeful which damages the brand in my humble opinion and may make me chose something different next time. 2016 (L405) Autobiography in Black with Ivory - for ULEZ
2014 (L405) VSE in Black with Ivory
2011 (L322) VSE in Black with Ivory
2005 (3.2 V6) Porsche Cayenne in Black with Savanna
1999 (P38) VSE in Burgundy (?) with Sand

Vogue wrote:

Sorry, but I find that extremely difficult to believe - I am on my 16th RR and have driven more miles than must in these vehicles - it’s usually the “have nots” that try and find reasons to justify why they cannot own one

Wow !!! Is that the general ' have-nots' or specific 'have nots'. Your mileage or driving experiance in FFRRs is completely irrelevant to how other opinions are formed, some of us 'have nots' are able to form our own opinion based on our own experience. Good to see people able to end a friendly discussion with a ' superior' opinion though , saves all of us ' have nots' the effort of posting.

To the original poster, the offer from Cam Tech Craig seems a very sensible ( and generous ) way for you to make up your own mind of what suits you the best. Thats if you need to make your own choice if other much , much wiser and more informed people think its ok for you to decide for yourself as you are technically a ' have not ' at present.  2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

CS wrote:

...on the 3.0 TDV6. When last at the dealer's, I was in the workshop. There was a Discovery 4 with the body off awaiting a replacement engine. I discussed it with a technician and was told replacement of the 3.0 TDV6s was a regular occurrence, with cam problems being the main cause. Apparently there is a telltale oil leak that shows before the failure, and LR are providing replacement engines on a 'no quibble' basis. The technician added that it was a shame that the engines were so prone to failure as they were otherwise very good, with an excellent balance of performance and economy. I would not consider a 3.0 TDV6. Even if the risk of failure is small, and LR would be likely to fix the car without cost to me, it is not worth the risk of a failure occurring in a safety critical situation...

Quote:

All relate to 4.4 diesel engine failures.

Balance

I've driven a 2018 SDV8 405 then got back into my 2011 322 without any feelings of want.

For me, I love the 322 interior cabin design and contrarily, the 405 cabin design doesn't quite do it for me. The tail lights too are a confusion of two conflicting design languages (the 2018 tail light refresh hasn't improved that).

Truth is, they are both great vessels and the OP's decision will come down to taste, design, driving experience and budget.

But I can't keep my 322 forever and, inevitably I will need a new bus at some point. And it's not going to be German. Nor a saloon.

It'll be a Range Rover. Because there is no coming back once you're in one.

. Cheers, Greg
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2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

speedymarktd6 wrote:

3.0 TDV6 is a Peugeot / Citroen built engine and it is a poorly made and just generally rubbish engine that will fall to bits with no warning
It’s well documented that they chew up cam belts, lunch oil pumps and snap the crankshafts into 2 pieces just to name a few of the problems



4.4 TDV8 is a ford built engine and it is a fantastic engine

Except that the TDV6 is also built by Ford (at Dagenham), while the TDV8 is built by Ford (at Chihuahua) and was developed from the same Ford/Peugeot/Citroen “Lion” V6 design.

I’ve owned two SDV6’s (in D4’s) where they were great engines. The oil pump was sorted many years ago, but snapping cranks crop up from time to time. No one knows how many for sure, it’s all the subject of rumour and speculation.

I’ve had one serious problem with my own SDV8, which resulted from an oil leak escaping along the wiring harness that links the oil sensor, inside the engine, to the main loom, allowing oil to drain along the cable and in to the electronics of the primary turbocharger - resulting in all manor of fault codes and a yellow engine light of death.

It needed a modified wiring loom (7 hours’ labour!!) and a new turbocharger. Fortunately, as a 2017 car, it was all done under warranty.

Apart from that, it’s a great engine

Am a ( have-not ) will stick with me l322 until it dies i think ........

I would class myself as a have no 405. They are just getting to the point where I'm just starting to get tempted. However im yet to drive one so cannot offer a relevant opinion as to how good they are.

Personally I've never been disappointed with the 4.4 tdv8 L322. It does everything Ive ever asked of it with little fuss. And that's my point. I could spend £30k to get me into a 405, and it would be all nice and shiny for a week then there would be chocolate ground into the seats and curly wurly wrappers in the seat pockets and door handles. Once the shine has worn off I would be wondering why I spent the money, for a car to replace one which did everything perfectly......

I suppose I may have grown more pragmatic as I get older. I love cars, but they are reaching that point where they just perform a function, and so long as they are comfy and perform well then I no longer see the point in replacing them until they start decanting the toys from the pram. At the end of the day I spend most of my days driving round in a diesel disco which smells of petrol because of the tools in the back, so getting into my trusty 322 seems like luxury.

Im sure that the 405 drives better, is more economical, more modern, has better tech, tows better, and looks flashier on the drive, but at the end of the day to me it does none of these things £30k better than the 322 I have at the moment, so though im tempted i would rather spend that money on something other than a 405.......at the moment....... There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Good balance from RM and NMJ

The L405 is a treat. So was the 4.4 L322.

Mrs pld has never fathomed the price difference between the two and did not think it was worth it, although is over that part now... Likes both cars fairly equally. Thinks the boot was bigger and better in the L322 and thinks the L405 looks/ feels more modern and car like nimble to drive... Keep reminding her that the agility is partly because of the 3.0 engine 😉

The L322 is a big beastie although so too is the L405. They both have presence, in not dissimilar ways IMO.

The L405 remote upper tailgate is worth keeping alert to. If you end up with the rear of the car close to a solid object or under a low roof, you could inadvertently open the remote upper tailgate and end up damaging the paintwork on the tailgate (not done it yet although a few close calls).

Nothing has gone awry with ours... Some posts on the forum seem to include 2017 2018 owners who have had more problems than they'd bargained for and in some cases, more than they were prepared to live with, given the outlay for 2017/ 2018 models (fair enough).

I had my 2010 L322 3.6 VSE for 4 years and it was the best car I’d ever had. Stupidly chopped it in for a brand new Jag F Pace 3.0 V6 which I shipped out after 53 weeks of ownership for a 4.4 2015.5 L405 VSE, which I loved from the minute I sat in it. Which is better? The 405 is smoother, faster, and lighter, but no more luxurious. The lights aren’t as good - surprisingly - but in most respects its a nicer car and is now the best car I’ve ever had. So yes, in my view the 405 is better, but they are more expensive, so if you have a good late 322, hang on to it whilst saving for a nice 405. Took me 6 months to find mine.

As for the comments on the 3.0 V6, I had that engine in the Jag and in two previous RRSs and never had a problem. I liked the purring noise it made, not like a V8, but noticeably better than a 4 pot. It was smooth and unlaboured in my use. Couldn’t have it in a FFRR though, because they have to be V8s, its the law!

Another point: the towbar options on the 405 are better, I have the detachable farmer's hitch one and it is simpler and sturdier than the Westfalia style one on the 322, which was prone to seizure of the release mechanism. The 322 has a more convenient approach to storage around the cabin, and early 405s have the seat heating 'through the screen' which is more fiddly and takes attention off the road for longer.

pld118: the workshop had done a RR 3.0 TDV6 too, but numerous D4s. In the interests of balance they have also had to fit a new engine to a 4.4SDV8, a hard worked farm car that did lots of heavy towing. The 4.4 failure was regarded as exceptional. Only Range Rovers since 1988

I was a multiple L322 owner. I have been a L405 owner for 4 years. About to trade my current one in for a new one.

I can't imagine why anyone would want the older one if they could run the new one. It is in a different league, That said, there are some areas where the L322 is better - the boot is bigger for a start.

As for 4.4 vs 3.0, I haven't driven both but the 4.4 has the anti-roll system which I'd be loath to be without.

I wrote this the first day I got mine:

First impressions:
* The driving experience is first class
* It turns in with much greater confidence
* There is much less wallow
* It is particularly noticeable when entering a fast sweeper or a roundabout - in the L322, the car would lean out but the L405 tracks flat
* Steering feel sharper as a result
* Economy is well up - I got 34mpg in some relaxed, mixed and spirited driving
* The ride on 21" is at least as good as the L322 on 20" - I'd actually rate it higher but I'm not sure if that is wishful thinking
* Road and wind noise is marginally better
* The seats are comfortable - at least as good
* The massage seats are good at keeping you alert
* The interior is a very nice place in which to spend time
* The interior is simpler at first glance but there are many more functions (although they are difficult to access - buried in menu systems)
* The dash binnacle is quite a bit "busier" (digital speedo added, the needles go behind the numbers now, the needle fade out at the end, etc.) with less nice graphics - but at last with your music and satnav info (yay!)
* I preferred the old graphics on the late L322 satnav (and the old one told you how far to your next turn off when on a motorway - you have to change view on the new one to see that)
* Traffic is better integrated into satnav (tells you where the problems are and allows you which to choose to avoid)
* It still doesn't support Siri on iPhone that I could find at least (grr!)
* The voice commands are more reliable but are still as complex (grr!)
* I was annoyed that the centre cubby box is much smaller and that the sunglasses holder above the rear view mirror had gone
* However, there is more storage overall - there are two door bins (one ideal for sunglasses) and the two gloveboxes are both bigger than the old ones

Couldn't agree with E M more

The question of reliability of the 3.0 engine? My 2 peneth for what its worth! I think there are many that suffer with the well known phenomenon of oil coagulation when the wrong engine oil is either added as a topup or at service point. The same happened to the 2.4 defender engines too from memory... As the cars get older and start getting serviced by ill informed garages this happens more often! This happens when the wrong oil is introduced and does not mix with the correct grade of oil therefore causing coagulation issues and eventually blocks oil ways and the engine has a "stroke" type occurrence, momentarily blocking oil to a main journal (usually the rear cylinders) and catastrophic failures occur... Again, this is only based on my suspicions...