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Andy_J



Member Since: 14 Nov 2011
Location: Muir of Ord
Posts: 478

Scotland 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Java Black
insurance Values

unfortunately after the winds we had at the weekend a tree fell on my drive and my Range Rover and Golf V6 are both written off. Tree landed on the roof of both vehicles buckling the c post and tailgate on the golf and the A and b post on the passenger side of the RR and pushed the passenger door back an inch as well as shattering the windscreen and probably plenty of other damage I can't see. Given the age of both vehicles neither are fixable.

So the question is what is the car worth?

I know from discussing the golf with direct line they use glasses or cap values, but neither of those organisations will give a value to a private individual. Apparently they no longer accept adverts for similar cars to give market value?

The RR is a 56 plate VSE with recent MOT, FSH and had most of the usual rust fixed (except for tailgate) 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Post #622140 1st Feb 2022 9:17pm
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IGP



Member Since: 09 Jul 2020
Location: Caverswall
Posts: 213

United Kingdom 2013 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Siberian Silver

Stick the registration numbers in WBAC or Motorway and see what values they give. Will give you a rough idea. Also look in Autotrader for similar aged and mileage vehicles. 2013 Vogue SE SDV8
2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Luxury

Post #622182 2nd Feb 2022 7:49am
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RRV8SC



Member Since: 02 Oct 2021
Location: SW London
Posts: 82

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

What IGP says.

Parkers Price Guide is also quite good especially if you pay a bit to get an accurate, mile adjusted figure. Insurance companies would struggle to argue with those, if you think they're OK.

Might be of interest?

https://www.conceptcarcredit.co.uk/truth-a...valuation/

Post #622195 2nd Feb 2022 10:09am
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dhallworth



Member Since: 10 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2431

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Baltic Blue

Never accept the insurance companies first offer either Smile

They'll always increase it.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Post #622211 2nd Feb 2022 12:19pm
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Andy_J



Member Since: 14 Nov 2011
Location: Muir of Ord
Posts: 478

Scotland 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Java Black

Thanks for the pointers.

I don't think I will bother with WBAC as that is a forced sale value and they offered £200 for my golf and I settled with the insurance at over £2000.

Parkers article is interesting

I never accept the fist price offered 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Post #622293 2nd Feb 2022 10:47pm
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socialrover



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 134

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography SDV6 Santorini Black

Hi Andy ,

having recently been in a position to claim ( keyless theft off the drive ) , I have found that it is now the norm for Insurance companies to pay glasses guide , CAP values , rather than values advertised by dealers .

I think many car drivers are unaware of this shift away from values being guided by advertised traders prices .

Even the trade prices being used are trade in values rather than forecourt prices .

It can be quite a shock as prices on forecourts are very strong currently and in my view will remain so until at least the end of year .

Post #622569 5th Feb 2022 3:29pm
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Andy_J



Member Since: 14 Nov 2011
Location: Muir of Ord
Posts: 478

Scotland 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Java Black

Thanks Socialrover

I have been advised that they use the glasses and CAP values, the problem I have how do you check them, Glasses and CAP only seem to provide value to traders.

It is difficult with forecourt priced being strong compared to the values being offered.

I have now paid for a parkers valuation which is closer to forecourt and some of the free valuations I have got. so hopefully I can persuade them to give me a reasonable amount 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Post #622636 5th Feb 2022 9:27pm
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socialrover



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 134

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography SDV6 Santorini Black

Hello Andy ,

as others had encouraged me , I will also encourage you to keep fighting your case .I was unsuccessful but have gone to the ombudsman .

Another gentleman (JCW ) made a very good point on an earlier thread

"No experience but surely this logic is flawed - insurance needs to cover the cost to replace, i.e. the market value to purchase, not what you’d likely receive if you traded it in, which is the market value to sell Whistle "

I suppose it comes down to ones interpretation of ' reasonable amount ' for a value .

I personally think it greatly unfair if I didn't get a value with which I could get a like for like replacement .( not forgetting all the added inconvenience of not having a car and sourcing another replacement vehicle - which for many of us on here is often a process which a lot of time and effort has gone into ) .

Keep making your case Andy , if we all make the same noise then perhaps they will start to listen .

Post #622670 6th Feb 2022 8:20am
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Bl4ckD0g



Member Since: 16 Feb 2020
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 1322

Netherlands 2010 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

I think the ombudsman will be a slow and toothless journey. As I’ve mentioned it before, you are way too nice. Get a lawyer to represent you. That company is running rings around you; or at least the lawyer will have full insight to all the relevant documentation which none of us have on here.

Sure eSure could be behaving badly, but there could be something else going on. Taking the terms at face value as presented they don’t have a leg to stand on. So their behaviour doesn’t make any sense.

Get a lawyer to help fight your corner.

Post #622694 6th Feb 2022 10:21am
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JCW



Member Since: 13 Apr 2013
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 602

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

I thought I’d check my own policy wording on this point, I have a multi car policy with Admiral - here’s the definition of ‘market value’ (based on loss from theft or uneconomical repair) -

“Market value: The cost of replacing your car, with one of a similar make, model, year, mileage and condition based on market prices at the time of the loss. Should we pay out the market value for your vehicle the amount paid out for your car shall not exceed its market value at the time of the incident”

I’d argue strongly this reflects the cost to buy the replacement regardless of the high prices currently, not the value to sell / part-ex / trade values etc.

Agree with Blackdog - fight your corner based on the terms of your policy & therefore binding contract with them Thumbs Up

Post #622698 6th Feb 2022 10:44am
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jagracer



Member Since: 14 Aug 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 92

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zermatt Silver

Interesting information. I had a Saab 9000 twenty years ago, 80k miles, bought from a main Ford dealer for £2500 which included the salesmans bung. Three months later, towing a trailer, it rolled down the A14 on a stretch of road that the Police said had numerous problems with an adverse camber. The Insurance company paid out £6000 without asking any questions, less a £250 excess. No option to repair the car, and the Trailer manufacturer, I found out later was copying Ifor Williams Trailers, but badly, as they hasd a habit of turning over loaded, Three in Cornwall that I knew of in 2003. Its a bit of a Lottery for everything now, insn't it.

Post #622716 6th Feb 2022 12:26pm
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socialrover



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 134

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography SDV6 Santorini Black

I think you may be onto something there Blackdog , I will start to ring round a few local law firms in the morning .

@JCW I too have tried to interpret the definition of the term Market value and it states in its terms .

"market value – The market value is the amount you could reasonably have expected to sell your car for on the open market immediately before your accident or loss. Our assessment of the value is based on cars of the same make and model and of a similar age, condition and mileage at the time of accident or loss. This value is based on research from motor trade guides including: Glass’s, Parkers and CAP. This may not be the price you paid when you purchased the car."

The issue is the insurance company is using an average of trade in values form above guides , if one guide is way out (as is in my case , there is a £15k ( yes £15k DIFFERENCE ) between the top and bottom price ) , the insurance company then offers you the average amount ( as them is the rules ) !

They really are using every trick ( and the loosest interpretation ) of the policy to mitigate their loss and pass the loss down stream i.e. to the customer .

I never have heard of these tricks when the market was normal - it was usually send us three adverts and we will pay there or there abouts .

Post #622756 6th Feb 2022 3:40pm
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Bl4ckD0g



Member Since: 16 Feb 2020
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 1322

Netherlands 2010 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

Aha I get it now. Their market value is based on you selling the car, most would expect buying it. But if your terms state that then it may be a tough one. One angle a lawyer may look at is whether those terms are actually legal and don’t go against your rights.

And if they define it as based on those guides than you are royally screwed; sorry to say. Trying to sell a car myself, those guides are way way below the value of buying. I think the difference between selling and buying is so great at the moment as the market is odd and trying to protect itself.

Bottom line is; if they base it on that and the terms are described like that I can see that they are within their obligation. Whether it is contrary to your rights I don’t know how explicit those are. I think it is very naughty of eSure to define the policy like that, that is not done with your interest at heart.

Post #622757 6th Feb 2022 3:59pm
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socialrover



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 134

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography SDV6 Santorini Black

Umm big corporations eh Blackdog ....it would be interesting to know whether they have changed their definition of Market value in the last year or two as a direct consequence of the abnormal current car market . ( wonder whether the actuaries miscalculated the premiums for such a strong market ?)

I am somewhat resigned to the lower than marker value they have offered , but as you mention, it will be very interesting to test the assertion whether their terms are fair or not ?

I will run it under the noses of a couple of law firms and see what their view is as to whether or not to test it further in court .

Post #622759 6th Feb 2022 4:11pm
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Andy_J



Member Since: 14 Nov 2011
Location: Muir of Ord
Posts: 478

Scotland 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Java Black

Thanks guys, I intend to keep pushing, but fortunately I am not arguing about £15k, a much smaller amount for me

I have a couple of valuations using Whatcar and HPIvaluations which are about what I would accept. 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Post #622807 6th Feb 2022 10:34pm
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