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Haylands



Member Since: 04 Mar 2014
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 7927

England 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

JayGee wrote:
Can anyone explain by what physical process a mechanical system will last longer by subjecting it to more stress?
Should I drive faster, accelerate harder or for more miles to increase the lifespan of the engine, suspension, brakes etc…….


You've missed the point... I'm not saying for one second that using something will not wear it out, what I like to do is wear everything out in equal measure...

I (and a lot of other people) find that using all aspects of the car to the parameters they were designed to work in keeps everything evenly worn and working nicely...

If you don't agree, that is fine but please try not to be rude about other peoples beliefs, I post what I think, I don't tell anyone what to believe. I respect others views and beliefs and appreciate there are many different views and opinions... Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Post #640914 25th Aug 2022 10:15pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

JayGee wrote:
Can anyone explain by what physical process a mechanical system will last longer by subjecting it to more stress?
Should I drive faster, accelerate harder or for more miles to increase the lifespan of the engine, suspension, brakes etc…….


One of my past responsibilities was to overhaul prime set generators, these were reasonably sized 16 litre Volvo Penta engines with a 500kW generator hanging off the back of it. After a full strip overhaul, we put them on a load bank at 110% of full rated load for 24 hours after a 20 minute warm-up, which was generous TBH as they often had to come on-line within 90 seconds of startup in ambient ranging from -31 to +42. All engines in my experience perform better and last longer if they work within their higher performance range for the majority of their life. The generator on/offline thresholds meant that they never came online if their share of the load would be below 30% and they were 'happier' running at 70-80% load - the oil sampling & testing certainly bore that out. less carbon and white metal with engines driven at an average of 70% load than those driven at 40-50% load, we had some sites (there were 52 gensets in total) that ran at a lighter load (20-30%) during certain times, these needed more frequent oil changes and had significant wear and soot build up evident at overhaul.

I can't explain why, I just know diesel engines last longer and perform better with higher loads. Not just from the experiences above but from my own diesel vehicles and working on the vehicles of others.

To put it another way, if you had a wheeled trolley, the wheels are less likely to squeak when you do move it if it's moved regularly than if it stays static for months or years on end. The MoD employed people to regularly drive the Green Goddess' around their storage site to keep things lubricated and freed off for when they were needed - now I'm sure they wouldn't waste part of the bullets & bombs budget doing that if it didn't make sense to regularly keep things moving.

I also think you're looking at it the wrong way, its not 'more stress' it's 'normal operating conditions', under-working something always leads to issues, also bear in mind that these engines are derated from the known-safe performance point, so they can cope with the variation in fuel, temperature, altitude and load typically found in the various markets JLR products are sold and used in.

Post #640917 25th Aug 2022 10:27pm
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garyRR



Member Since: 13 Mar 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1364

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DrRob wrote:
Agreed. Open the taps for that second turbo to clear its guts...I do it regularly once engine up to temp.


The key is to only work the engine once up to temperature, as straining an engine when cold and not up to it's full design tolerances through heat expansion can lead to premature damage/wear. I would argue it's not a wise idea to never engage the 2nd turbo because it needs heat and charged air in order to clear any accumulation of oil. Doing this daily or every few days will always keep it clear and ensure the amount of oil sent through the engine for burning is miniscule.

Doing this once a year could send a lot of oil through the intake and into combustion at one time, prematurely damaging the cylinder(s) or exhaust components. On a diesel it's not as risky as on a petrol however. The other thing is that the occasional "foot down" ensures components get red hot and better able to burn out any coke build up. 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 SDV8

Post #640924 26th Aug 2022 5:43am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
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United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Please accept my apologies if I came over as rude as this was not my intention at all. However I'm not convinced by the need to suddenly torque load my geartrain by engaging the 2nd turbo every trip on a 10yr old car approaching 150k miles. AFAIK the oil buildup in the 2nd turbo is on the exhaust side as when it 'blows' the smoke is white/ grey so it's not going through the engine intake and being burnt (it would be blue) and furthermore this turbo bypasses the DPF so it's not adding to ash build-up. Diesel generators are not like automotive engines as they are designed to run at steady loads and unless you are towing constantly or driving up a hill indefinitely or doing very high speed autobahn runs it's impossible to subject these engines to steady high loads and I suspect they will be designed around light load use. On Petrol engines heat generated by hard acceleration was/ is certainly a way of burning of carbon fouling on plugs and maybe exhaust valves but I'm not at all convinced this applies to modem diesel engines. Furthermore high power generation on diesel is achieved by increasing the fuel / air ratio so you are also increasing the likelihood of creating more not less soot and therefore more deposits. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #640928 26th Aug 2022 8:28am
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DrRob



Member Since: 16 Apr 2015
Location: Petersfield, Hampshire
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United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Gone to a good home: 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
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Post #640950 26th Aug 2022 11:38am
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kevinp



Member Since: 28 Sep 2019
Location: Telford
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United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

I don't understand how the second turbo dose not blow into the inlet manifold and does not go through the dpf. Surely everything goes through the dpf?

Post #640951 26th Aug 2022 12:06pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
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United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Embarassed I was wrong and it just bypasses the CAT. The oil likley accumulates mainly on the exhaust side of the turbine and am only going on smoke colour - white grey is oil vapour from and blue is oil smoke from it being combusted in the cylinders. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #640953 26th Aug 2022 12:25pm
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mjdronfield



Member Since: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 7640

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

I just know it doesn’t smoke if I give it the odd blast… doesn’t have to be balls out…

Thumbs Up 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
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Post #640964 26th Aug 2022 1:50pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
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You'd be surprised at how much load variation there is on generation sets, if it was all fixed load then they wouldn't need turbos. There is also an issue with transient phase imbalance causing instability which can do real physical damage. Anyway, back to keeping the second turbo active - just use your gears, nobody is saying you need to cane the life out of it just work it sufficiently to get the engine core temperature up and it will help not just the turbo but also burn off some of the carbon deposits.
BTW, carbon deposits in a petrol engine are usually due to overfuelling, in a diesel, they're usually due to low combustion temperatures.

Post #640970 26th Aug 2022 2:50pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
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United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Not sure I understand how to use the gears to get the engine 'core temperature' up as this must be governed by load not RPM and the combustion temperatures are also kept low by the EGR valve which is open most of the time. To get the 2nd turbo going you do actually have to cane it some. Just done 1800miles around the UK and Ireland on a mixture of roads and gradients and never went into the 2nd turbo. Max torque ( 700nm) is achieved at 1500rpm and there's plenty of poke for sensible overtaking manoeuvres under 2500rpm. Each to their own but I'll carry on as I have been doing Thumbs Up 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #640978 26th Aug 2022 4:06pm
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Haylands



Member Since: 04 Mar 2014
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 7927

England 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

It's a very "Marmite" subject, each to their own, just do whatever makes you feel right... Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Post #640983 26th Aug 2022 6:10pm
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ergobyte



Member Since: 03 Apr 2022
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France 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Java Black

Ok, I'll google what the heck is "Marmite" ... "it needs some intelligence to undestand you may not have enough"

Post #641029 27th Aug 2022 8:48am
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Kot



Member Since: 10 Mar 2021
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Marmite--- You either Love it or Hate it 2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

Post #641031 27th Aug 2022 9:13am
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Kot



Member Since: 10 Mar 2021
Location: broadland
Posts: 1102

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JayGee wrote:
Not sure I understand how to use the gears to get the engine 'core temperature' up as this must be governed by load not RPM and the combustion temperatures are also kept low by the EGR valve which is open most of the time. To get the 2nd turbo going you do actually have to cane it some. Just done 1800miles around the UK and Ireland on a mixture of roads and gradients and never went into the 2nd turbo. Max torque ( 700nm) is achieved at 1500rpm and there's plenty of poke for sensible overtaking manoeuvres under 2500rpm. Each to their own but I'll carry on as I have been doing Thumbs Up


Normal driving after 15 to 20 mins even at revs around 1500, your oil temperature will be around the 95 to 100C temperature anyway, that is a good time to test your 2nd Turbo with a clear road ahead.
Just dont ever take the revs anywhere near the red zone, its there for a reason. 2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

Post #641032 27th Aug 2022 9:21am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2729

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Don’t use the 2nd turbo so no need to clear it Wink. If I did ever need it then it would clear itself (sorry in advance to anyone who is behind me……)
To burn off or clear carbon buildup in an engine would need sustained high load and not the occasional burst of revs. This is my question about the advice to use the gears to get the cord temperature up - is it using the command shift to drive around for a while at >2500rpm? 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #641044 27th Aug 2022 10:28am
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