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Japseroony



Member Since: 18 Nov 2008
Location: North East
Posts: 358

England 2019 Range Rover SVAutobiography 5.0 SC V8 Indus Silver

Phil. wrote:
What I haven’t told them yet is that I’m not taking any of their finance, which means the RR is mine and they can’t stop me selling it on if/when I decide to. I’m certainly won’t be PX’ing it with them next time, they’ve lost that future business at least.

Only decision now is whether to place my next order with them or a competitor. I’ve told them I’m contemplating this and a nil response so far.


Hmm, you might wish to think about this as the sale's contract states in there somewhere that you agree not to sell the vehicle on and specifically mentions a reseller (of which unless you are in the trade you are not) but if and I repeat if LR see you are selling your vehicle on and at a profit they can a, fine the dealer 10% of the value of the vehicle (list price) and b, blacklist you from buying a car in the future!

Most if not all dealers/manufacturers have this in the sale's contract but its only becoming an issue now that there is a shortage of new vehicles meaning pre-reg or very young vehicles are being sold at a higher than new price.

I know 3 dealerships that have been fined for not doing due-diligence on the customer and also several folk who have sold on a vehicle and been unable to order a new one! "UNDERSTEER" ----is when you hit the fence with the front of the car.
"OVERSTEER" ------is when you hit the fence with the rear of the car.
"HORSEPOWER" ----is how fast you hit the fence.
"TORQUE" -----------is how far you take the fence with you.

Post #655831 6th Feb 2023 4:14pm
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cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 692

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Causeway Grey

The problem is that like it or not the dealers have the upper hand, as long as there is an 18 month waiting list and more buyers than cars, anyone who wants one will have to put up with whatever crap the dealers/manufacturers dish out. The only leverage we ever had as buyers was the threat of walking away which is no threat when demand is greater than supply.
The whole car buying experience has turned into a chore for me and I can't see it ever changing again now that building to order seems to becoming the norm - this isn't just a JLR issue but they do seem to be able to make a particularly good ar$e of it.

Post #655834 6th Feb 2023 5:10pm
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AndyS



Member Since: 27 Feb 2016
Location: Lymington, Hampshire
Posts: 395

United Kingdom 

I've signed the agreement and then sold my car via SOR with the original dealer when it was a couple of months old for a decent mark up so the rules don't apply using this method. If I'd sold via an independant dealer then the rules apply.
I have also ordered a replacement car through them without issues. Current fleet:
2020 McLaren 600LT Spider
2020 Mercedes C300 Cabriolet
2023 PHEV 440 SE
1992 Lotus Esprit turbo
2017 Alpine A110

Post #655845 6th Feb 2023 6:21pm
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Japseroony



Member Since: 18 Nov 2008
Location: North East
Posts: 358

England 2019 Range Rover SVAutobiography 5.0 SC V8 Indus Silver

AndyS doing a SOR is fine as you are selling back to the original dealer which apparently is acceptable Whistle

It does however assist the dealer in making a profit and inflating the used LR car market Rolling Eyes Thumbs Up Rolling Eyes "UNDERSTEER" ----is when you hit the fence with the front of the car.
"OVERSTEER" ------is when you hit the fence with the rear of the car.
"HORSEPOWER" ----is how fast you hit the fence.
"TORQUE" -----------is how far you take the fence with you.

Post #655853 6th Feb 2023 6:47pm
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Dixy



Member Since: 09 Apr 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1070

2016 Range Rover Vogue SDV8 Loire Blue

Interesting RDR. Vertu have recently bought the Helston Garages group that include my dealer that I have known for 40 years. Have dealt with the same salesman for nearly 20 years, will be interesting what he says and if he stays. letters not necessarily in the right order

Post #655855 6th Feb 2023 6:58pm
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AndyS



Member Since: 27 Feb 2016
Location: Lymington, Hampshire
Posts: 395

United Kingdom 

Japseroony wrote:
AndyS doing a SOR is fine as you are selling back to the original dealer which apparently is acceptable Whistle

It does however assist the dealer in making a profit and inflating the used LR car market Rolling Eyes Thumbs Up Rolling Eyes


They charged me over 3 times the normal SOR fee too. Big Cry Current fleet:
2020 McLaren 600LT Spider
2020 Mercedes C300 Cabriolet
2023 PHEV 440 SE
1992 Lotus Esprit turbo
2017 Alpine A110

Post #655856 6th Feb 2023 7:28pm
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Phil.



Member Since: 19 Apr 2010
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 767

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

Japseroony,

To clarify, I’m not thinking of selling mine soon just prefer it not to be financed by JLR when I do. MY23 D350 HSE
On my 7th RR plus various other JLR vehicles

Post #656055 8th Feb 2023 5:02pm
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supershuttle



Member Since: 20 Mar 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3628

England 2013 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Luxor

I was barrelling along the motorway when passed by an L460. I said to SWMBO "thats the new Range Rover", "don't think your getting one of those ugly things" she said, I've clearly got some work to do. Very Happy Geoff

Post #656057 8th Feb 2023 5:19pm
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex / Normandy
Posts: 1157

United Kingdom 

Geoff

Take her out for a test drive…. Mine fell for it straight away . I had one for a couple of hours. Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Post #656059 8th Feb 2023 5:22pm
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Japseroony



Member Since: 18 Nov 2008
Location: North East
Posts: 358

England 2019 Range Rover SVAutobiography 5.0 SC V8 Indus Silver

Phil. wrote:
Japseroony,

To clarify, I’m not thinking of selling mine soon just prefer it not to be financed by JLR when I do.


Hi Phil, makes absolutely no difference to me what you do with it and if you can and do sell it on for a profit then good for you, was just highlighting the potential issues was all Thumbs Up "UNDERSTEER" ----is when you hit the fence with the front of the car.
"OVERSTEER" ------is when you hit the fence with the rear of the car.
"HORSEPOWER" ----is how fast you hit the fence.
"TORQUE" -----------is how far you take the fence with you.

Post #656061 8th Feb 2023 5:28pm
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex / Normandy
Posts: 1157

United Kingdom 

cass wrote:
The problem is that like it or not the dealers have the upper hand, as long as there is an 18 month waiting list and more buyers than cars, anyone who wants one will have to put up with whatever crap the dealers/manufacturers ……..


I have been involved with ‘sales’ for 40 years, in a market that swung erratically & significantly .
All I know is , it’s extremely hard not to poke the buyers when the market is firm, and inevitably I get a good kicking when it’s down.

My success was whilst riding high, not being to harsh whilst sticking the red hot poker where the sun doesn’t shine, do it gently and sympathetically…smiling all the time…At least I got a call when the market collapsed.

JLR dealers have a lot to learn Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Post #656062 8th Feb 2023 5:32pm
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Phil.



Member Since: 19 Apr 2010
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 767

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

It appears that Defender delivery times are reducing as are their premiums. I expect this will the case for FFRR/RRS in the next 18 months or so, at which point the dealers will face completely different market conditions. MY23 D350 HSE
On my 7th RR plus various other JLR vehicles

Post #656064 8th Feb 2023 5:41pm
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5.0



Member Since: 25 Feb 2012
Location: Surrey
Posts: 708

United Kingdom 

253 L460s for sale on AutoTrader at the moment, anecdotal evidence from this forum regarding builds and the increasing number I am seeing around suggests to me that the premiums will disappear in a lot less than 18 months. Also, the interest rates on PCPs is curbing demand for all new cars.

Post #656099 9th Feb 2023 11:50am
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Japseroony



Member Since: 18 Nov 2008
Location: North East
Posts: 358

England 2019 Range Rover SVAutobiography 5.0 SC V8 Indus Silver

5.0 wrote:
253 L460s for sale on AutoTrader at the moment, anecdotal evidence from this forum regarding builds and the increasing number I am seeing around suggests to me that the premiums will disappear in a lot less than 18 months. Also, the interest rates on PCPs is curbing demand for all new cars.


And every one of them above list with most well above list Rolling Eyes so you either bit the above list bullet or you pay a deposit and wait the 18 months Thumbs Up "UNDERSTEER" ----is when you hit the fence with the front of the car.
"OVERSTEER" ------is when you hit the fence with the rear of the car.
"HORSEPOWER" ----is how fast you hit the fence.
"TORQUE" -----------is how far you take the fence with you.

Post #656103 9th Feb 2023 12:02pm
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aja500



Member Since: 15 Oct 2017
Location: South East
Posts: 815

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Aruba

5.0 wrote:
253 L460s for sale on AutoTrader at the moment, anecdotal evidence from this forum regarding builds and the increasing number I am seeing around suggests to me that the premiums will disappear in a lot less than 18 months. Also, the interest rates on PCPs is curbing demand for all new cars.


5.0 is 100% correct here, these premiums are already starting to diminish on Range Rovers as well as other popular brands.

In addition to a FFRR, I also have a G400d G Wagon on order for my wife. These cars used to be flipped at £20k+ over list, now that figure is as little as £12k over list. That's probably £5k for the flipper and £7k for the dealer who's reselling and taking the risk with his cash - Can anyone really be bothered with all this hassle for a measly £5k? - Not me.

I spoke to my supplying JLR dealer today and they confirmed that they are definitely starting to see an increasing number of cancelled orders across the entire range. She told me that they are starting to notice people are cutting back, especially with the increasing APR's and general cost of living. I also know that Porsche are experiencing the same.
Factory production numbers at JLR are also beginning to increase, thereby again adding further to market availability.

In addition to all this, I heard the other day, that 1.8 million households are due to renew their mortgage products this year, many of these customers will see their interest rates double, or even triple!!!

With respect, anyone who thinks that these factors aren't going to lead to an increase in availability, a reduction in household spending, or a belief that FFRR premiums are going to stay this way forever, is frankly deluded.

Post #656152 9th Feb 2023 8:42pm
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