Nope, egr cleaner is not going to fix knackered bearings...... There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Mikey wrote:

Cam-Tech-Craig wrote:

Nick, bite the bullet and get them done before you overspeed one of your Turbo's! This will usually result in the Turbo failing very soon after the EGR is replaced, often destroying your engine! This is fact sir!!!

Would love to hear the theory behind this too...

Read the post below yours then sir...

I reiterate ... Unless you effectively want to sink the cost of a replacement engine plus labour ..... bite the bullet and get the EGRs done as soon as they start playing up ...... any bank balance can vouch for it ! Stephen Gazard

Range Rover L405 Vogue SE SDV8 - CamTech / Overfinch Bespoke
Maserati GT 2017
Mercedes SL55 AMG

Aston Martin DB9 07 - gone back to friend bought from, RR Classic 90 - gone, BMW 840ci - gone, RR TDV8 Overfinch 07 - gone, Porsche 911 (996 Carrera 2 98 - gone, BMW X5 3.0sd M Sport 08 - gone, RR Sport 4.2 Supercharged 05 - gone, BMW M3 Convertible 02 - gone, Range Rover 4.4 Autobiography 03 - stolen!, Range Rover 4.6 Vogue 01 - gone, Range Rover 4.6 Autobiography - gone

The EGR is there to lower combustion temps (due to less oxygen to burn, effectively strangling the engine)

So why would an EGR that is stuck open raise combustion temps?

And on top of that, the turbo speed is limited by how much air goes through it. The max amount of air is going to be at max load, high revs + full throttle. Why would a sticky EGR make the turbo spin faster than normal?

guys, as someone who experienced catastrophic engine failure in another marque due to a £5 crankshaft bearing deciding to let go after just 60k miles I am all for preventative modifications, how much does mapping it out cost and who does it, preferably in the SW / Midlands?!

An EGR stuck open while on boost means the extra gases being forced into the exhaust system get forced into the engine, which increases pressure which subsequently over speeds the turbo. The faster turbo then creates more boost which means higher combustion temps due to more oxygen. Sometimes the turbos wastegate can prevent this, but the wastegates on a diesel aren't huge so can't relieve all the pressure.

If the turbo doesn't die the other outcome can be a thrown piston, fortunately the turbos usually melt stopping this. Also if you don't manage to overspeed the turbo and don't blow the engine you can sometimes damage the vanes rendering the turbo a lot less efficient than normal. 
07 Supercharged - Still breaking her in!

Boot soundproofing part 1 - http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15612.html
Custom exhaust - http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15296.html
18" wheels for Brembo equipped cars - http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15052.html

As for mapping try Viezu v-box as that means you won't have to travel. Alternatively I think Alive tuning are down that way? Any mapper who can write the tunes should be able to do it, avoid anyone who just seems to load on stock maps. 
07 Supercharged - Still breaking her in!

Boot soundproofing part 1 - http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15612.html
Custom exhaust - http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15296.html
18" wheels for Brembo equipped cars - http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15052.html

TheAllSeeingPie wrote:

An EGR stuck open while on boost means the extra gases being forced into the exhaust system get forced into the engine, which increases pressure which subsequently over speeds the turbo. The faster turbo then creates more boost which means higher combustion temps due to more oxygen. Sometimes the turbos wastegate can prevent this, but the wastegates on a diesel aren't huge so can't relieve all the pressure.

If the turbo doesn't die the other outcome can be a thrown piston, fortunately the turbos usually melt stopping this. Also if you don't manage to overspeed the turbo and don't blow the engine you can sometimes damage the vanes rendering the turbo a lot less efficient than normal.

That's only if the turbo isn't coked up from a failing EGR. If the EGR is allowing soot build up in the engine then you'll get VNT issues as described here http://www.turbotechnics.com/www/?page_id=430. The blown turbo / happens if the turbo over speeds, the alternative is compete loss of power, however in our cars I was assuming people would jam the turbo open as we need more revs to get moving. 
07 Supercharged - Still breaking her in!

Boot soundproofing part 1 - http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15612.html
Custom exhaust - http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15296.html
18" wheels for Brembo equipped cars - http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15052.html

But you can't jam the turbo open on a TDV8. It is all electronically controlled, to protect itself. Not to mention a fairly major operation in itself to access the turbos!

For the reasons is my previous post, and they way the VNT works, the turbo would not overspeed

Speaking to Midland Turbo's part of the issue is the electronic unit... JLR bought a perfectly good proven unit from Garett then threw away the perfectly good proven mechanical actuator unit and had their own electronic units made! This is now far more unreliable then the original units (sticking shafts etc which incidentally leaves the unit sticky in one position)

That then combined with a progressing EGR issue allows the Turbo to "overspeed" and the damage is done!

So, my advice for what its worth (backed up by 6+ cases) is to keep engine oil clean (i.e. changed regularly) and of the finest quality you can afford! And the first signs of an EGR issue, bite the bullet and have them BOTH changed...

I will agree with your first statement

However, the turbo will not overspeed due to a faulty EGR.

The turbo speed is "controlled" by the amount of air going into the engine, and the size of bang made inside the cylinder.
With the EGR stuck open, there is less oxygen inside the cylinder to burn, so the bang will always be smaller than normal.

When the turbo comes in, the turbo pressure will overcome the pressure of the exhaust gas coming through the EGR valve. When this happens, only clean air will be going into the cylinder, which will also not cause an overspeed of the turbo.



I will also agree with using the best oil you can. FWIW, I will only use Castrol Magnatec in my customers cars

Interesting read guys, it is my first post but relevant as my dads tdv8 has got egr issues. I'm intend to blank them off and have the vehicle mapped as a mate of mine has a business who does this. The reason I joined the forum was to see if anybody knew of a company/person who made blanking plates for the egr valves? I don't see why anyone would be stupid enough to have there egr valve open constantly? Ie mapped to have it that way. You just blank the feed from exhaust side and blank the port where it re-enters the inlet, job done. I did this on my bmw 330 d m sport and when I removed the inlet omg the crud inside was terrible. I removed the full inlet manifold filled with drain cleaner mixed with gunk and left for 24 hours then swilled out. Egr is awful design unless it runs through a cooler first but a lot of engines are hot egr

Dave

Dave, firstly welcome sir

Secondly, i do NOT know of anyone that has managed to blank TDV8 EGR's yet sir. They are electronic so cause all manner of faults just blanking them... They need mapping out too...

So, unless your Dad has a strange obsession with watching his money go up in almost the same amount of smoke that will come from the LH exhaust... My advice is to resolve the issue immediately sir...

Thank you for the welcome and your thoughts. The mapping out isn't an issue my mapper tells me? I find it strange that no one has blanked it off before as that's all people do on all other makes and models that I'm aware of? And like I said earlier its what's did on my bmw, however that was a vacuum operated system but the vacuum was still operated by the ecu via a control valve so I would think it is the same principle? The reason this has come up is that the eml is on due to one of the egr valves. He planned on getting it mapped when he first bought the car so his thinking is if he is getting it mapped regardless and one valve is faulty then just blank the pair and map them out.

Dave