http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/arti...nt=article

Makes no mention of residual values or servicing costs, both of which can vary markedly between the two fuel types.

The writer isn't saying anything new and appears to be writing for the 'car as a white good' brigade.

Still, heartening to see that the message isn't purely 'diesel is better' but more 'hey look, petrol could be cool again'.  Si. <This is my name.

I eat rat poison.

A man ain't truly been insulted until he stands buck naked in front of a woman and she didn't even notice. Or care.

I found Pam's response most interesting

Pam
9:29 PM on 15/09/2014
But just comparing cash costs of fuel is no longer enough. You also have to compare the pollution each produces. Diesel exhaust is responsible for 15-20% of deaths. It's no longer being promoted as the better choice because of its greater mileage - now the figures are in for air quality, it's become horribly clear that the extra cars running on diesel (50% lately) have produced the highest ever levels if particulates which are simply deadly. No choice, buy petrol motors if you must run a car. If the true cost of travel is calculated, you should be including the costs to the NHS, lost work, and other health expenses.
2 replies

I still don't see me being seen as politically correct with a 5.0 SC petrol engine in the front............ AND I DON'T CARE  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Cam-Tech-Craig wrote:

I found Pam's response most interesting

OK, it's a bit "loony lefty" but what she is saying appears to be true in that diesel emissions are thought to be much more harmful than ever thought.

Example, from 2020, diesels will be hit with an additional £10 congestion charge and already Islington council fine you if you leave any diesel idling in the borough.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/isli...45605.html

This is just the tip of the iceberg, derv will become taxed more and more as it is understood that it doesn't provide what was first thought.

The mighty Toyota are investing no more money into diesel, what they have is what they have and anything else they need is bought in. All of the future R&D is focussed on hybrid and hydrogen technology.

We all have a good bit of banter on here regarding the petrol vs diesel debate. I am not anti diesel (last FF was a TD6) but I cannot help but think that the (medium) term future of diesel is dead...... 2006 4.2 SC
2019 Renault Zoe Dynamique Nav

I think part of the problem is that initially the big push was to reduce carbon dioxide tied to global warming and now we are looking at particulates which is a different ball park the upshot may well be increased tax on diesel we shall see

Might petrol vehicles soon be the ones people end up paying more to buy in the first place, as opposed to the current situation where it's more expensive to buy a diesel

Maybe but the current generation of Common Rail Diesels are very much more expensive to make due to the cost of the turbo and fuel rail components , I think petrols will shoot up in price when every one is more like an F1 power unit .But all of that will just be a stop gap before we have to stop using them all together . 2008 MY Supercharged
Rimini Red / Jet
four zone climate
remote park heater
and no ugly kid windows.
magnus satis quod turpis satis

Agreed, the particulate debate is relatively new and really tips the whole business case on its head. Diesels have had various add ons (eg DPF, EGR) over the years which have turned out to be complex and (as many have found on here) expensive to put right when they go wrong.

Companies like Royal Mail have a real challenge on their hands surrounding their diesel fleet and the way the local vehicles are used. An acquaintance works for the local council (streetlamp light bulb changing department!) who have recently been instructed to drive between jobs in first or second gear and to keep the revs above 4k wherever possible so that the DPF does its job. Whilst comical to see them driving around at 20 - 30 MPH at maximum revs the whole situation is a joke.

In 20 - 30 years diesel cars could well be avoided just like the removal of an asbestos roof is today.

Without a crystal ball nobody knows for sure! 2006 4.2 SC
2019 Renault Zoe Dynamique Nav

The bottom line is very simple, the fossil fuel is going extinct (pun intended) and the future is full electric renewable energy. Biofuel is only a temporary measure but we will see the internal combustion engines demise, maybe in our lifetime even for most of us (I hope, I mean that we do reach a very ripe age all of us).

If you read the Third Industrial Revolution then I think you may probably agree with Mr. Rifkin (and many others that are already embarking on that route). I hope we do see full electric in our lifetime becoming the norm but I also hope that I can keep running my 5.0 SC for many decades (I plan to hang on to it as a classic car as long as financially possible).

I have no problem driving a fully electric car in an environment that is suited for it. Give me a Tesla S company car anytime (just as long as I can keep the FFRR of course).

The debate petrol vs diesel is clearly a tough one because doing the full range of real cost is hard and varies per car and per user. And the discussion on what has to be included or not is yet another one. I do think that health effects cost should be included but unfortunately it is very hard to do that. I mean one can get cancer and other horrible diseases from soo many different compounds, how do you definitely prove someone got sick from diesel particles / emissions or from the thousands of other carcinogenic compounds we are exposed to over time. Although there is certainly a cost from health effects (and not only from diesel but petrol also still has some pretty unpleasant compounds in it) that should be taken into account, it is virtually impossible to calculate those costs accurately. And the accuracy of petrol vs diesel related health cost are unlikely to be in the same ballpark / accuracy range so it is not easy to compare at all.

Bottomline is, do the math and take into account as much of the costs as you "safely" can. And then decide for petrol because lets be honest a 5.0 SC V8 always trumps a diesel V8, not matter how many turbos, bhps or nms it has  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Quote:

lets be honest a 5.0 SC V8 always trumps a diesel V8, no matter how many turbos, bhps or nms it has

+1

Do you like your 5.0 SC then Eugene? You've never said.......  2006 4.2 SC
2019 Renault Zoe Dynamique Nav

 MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

CSK wrote:

Quote:

lets be honest a 5.0 SC V8 always trumps a diesel V8, no matter how many turbos, bhps or nms it has

+1

+2

Imo this harks back to when cats came in. Because the engines have to work to keep the cats at a good temp and so as not to poison them they are not working efficiently. I've been told a few times that patrols run better without them and could be made more economical without the things but they can't do it as almost every market requires them.

The same goes for diesels. Imo the worst stuff that comes out of a diesel is when it regenerates.

I have a lovely old diesel donk. It costs me 65p/litre to fuel and does 50+mpg at my lorry style cruising speed if not much higher

If you think about the ff and it's power train I bet in most the weight alone of all that is coming close to 1ton. Now replace that with 1/2 of batteries and 4 in wheel hub motors with a tiny 1cylinder diesel genset under the bonnet and you'll be cracking 150mpg all day long

A few companies are in the conversion business but most are going for the total electric thing which I think is the wrong way to go about it at the minute. Humans as a species don't do big jumps, we do slow gradual moves  FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.