I agree that starting out with flat batteries wouldn’t be the best way to operate a hybrid but it is the only way to get a true mpg figure. With full batteries it wouldn’t have anywhere to store the energy from baking for instance. As I said about the 55mpg, pick any number you like because it can do it under certain conditions, why not 1000 mpg? How much electricity is a gallon? It really should be stated along the lines of the first xx miles were done totally on electric power before the engine was needed and then the amount of fuel used for the remains miles. A constant speed trip on a motorway would also be meaningful, say 140 miles or so.
Hybrids are log interest to me I just see through estate agent speak of the mpg figures. Completely electric cars are ultimately the way to go, I had the use of a Tesla whilst working in USA for 6 months 2 years ago, that is the most impressive car I have ever driven. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

AJG, I disagree that it is a true mpg figure, It is the figure of using the engine only. This is not likely to be the way most owners will use them, so is just the other extreme, worst case figure.
For example, my current drive to work is 20 miles each way. Giving me an mpg figure of engine operation only is in no way applicable to my use, which I could probably do on battery power alone.

I do agree though that we need something far more descriptive than the usual urban/mixed/motorway. These are fine if augmented with differing length trips, and then show % of trip per 'fuel' type.
I think what is often overlooked is that recharging is not entirely free too. I know the Tesla charge stations are for some (friend has a Tesla X, and was telling me he can get all the way to his house in Switzerland for free !) but charging at home costs, as do non tesla charge stations.

To be fair this is no different to the current mpg figures, especially when stop/start came in. We had a mini cooper with a claimed 68mpg. Never saw north of 48mpg no matter how we drove it. Same with the wifes evoque, it actually averages 38mpg, not the 48+ that is claimed.

Do the cars give any economy data information ?
The wifes evoque has a screen that shows average figures for the last couple of trips: (see about a minute in, onwards)


What does the PHEV show ? Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

Im just staggered how people get sucked into these ridiculous figures. The salesman at Mitsubishi was absolutely adamant that it could easily do 150 + mpg because it was a Hybrid. I went down the path of ordering one but said I wanted a demonstration of exceeding 150 mpg. Off we went from Doncaster, out to the motorway, I suggested that 56 mph would be a good compromise, when we hit the motorway it was showing about 168 mpg which of course was completely inaccurate, the engine hadnt started. Once on the motorway it soon plummeted to below 33, back into town below 30, point proved, order not done. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

To be fair I did the same, so knew full well we wouldn't achieve the book figures.

This is exactly why we need real world figures from owners, but qualified with the length and type of drive.  Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

Agreed BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

I don't think anyone is getting "sucked in" to these figures. They are a mix of battery and petrol. No battery will be poor, with battery will be good, only battery will be infinite.

You seem very exercised about constructing the worst possible case for the PHEV. The 'real world' consumption is not the worst case that you seem very determined to focus on. It will be somewhere in the middle and will depend on how the person uses the car. Admittedly, a lot of company car buyers bought PHEVs and never charge them - as I said, stupid beyond belief.

In the same manner, I could argue that your car will return a stupidly poor mpg if driven by Lewis Hamilton round a track - probably low single figures - and should be judged on that. Is that its real world MPG? No. It's not how its supposed to be driven. It's not how it will be driven.

I am lucky enough to own a Tesla X 100D and an Outlander alongside my current 4.4 SDV8 Rangie.

The Tesla is fabulous. But not quite ideal for some journeys. A trip to, say my in-laws in North Yorkshire from home can be done in a single leap but there is only a 3pin plug there. That charges at about 5mph so I'd have to wait a couple of days to get back. To have any charge when there, I'd have to stop at Grantham or go out of my way to Scotch Corner to have a useable charge for using around their location. We've done it but I don't always want that limitation - particularly when I have dogs and guns in the car - much better to keep driving.

The Outlander is a bit pointless - it's the housekeeper's car. It gets used for short journeys, carting the dogs about, tip runs, etc. It's almost always on electric. Far cheaper than a Tesla but flexible if I need to use it as a back-up to the Rangie. No road tax is useful though. Pennies to run.

Then there is the diesel Rangie. I know what it does most days. Mid 20's. On every journey.

If I replace it with the PHEV my annual mpg will be far, far, far better than that. Most days the PHEV will do 20ish miles and barely sip on any petrol. On a very few days I'll do a long motorway journey and get mid 20s - just like I do now. The blended annual mpg will be much better. I suspect it might even be astonishing. Perhaps even in 3 figures. If it isn't, I don't care. 30 or 40mpg blended would be fine.

Completely agree, nicely put.

Owning both a Tesla X and an Outlander, though. Ouch. Two arch-backed dogs on one drive, oh the comedy!

I do have this as an antidote to that ugliness:

Click image to enlarge

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Click image to enlarge

Totally agreed Emperor Mong, a very nice appraisal, it would be helpful if manufacturers had to specify proper consumption eg 30 / 50 / 70 on ic engine only and the range on electric only. At least then people could make their own mind up of what to expect. A mix somewhere near maximum electric range has to be good for a Hybrid user and make sound economic sense considering the governments allowances for them. The crazy thing is the HMRC BIK allowance for say an outlander PHEV when used by sales rep, it definately isnt the green choice yet benefits all round.

Interesting re the Tesla and the charging situation, from flat to full on a 13 amps socket how long does it take? BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Vanquish S Ultimate, that's quite an antidote you have there!
I have the same engine in a smaller body: V12 Vantage S Roadster fitted with the Performance Pack. No charging facility, no turbochargers, lots of noise, never figured out what the fuel consumption is.

Quote:

I am lucky enough to own a Tesla X 100D

I've got a few large bars of soap too.

B est thread banter in a while....keep it up!!!

On a side note, tbh the only good thing is BIK.....but without the fuel allowance.....

I'll probably just wait a bit now.....was at the Monaco boat show so thats emptied the pockets!!!! all smug in my new plug!

2021 Westminster Black D300
2013 Vogue SE - gone
Some Porsche Cayenne guff pretending to be a 4x4!!
2006 Vogue
2004 Vogue
2001 Vogue

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:

Interesting re the Tesla and the charging situation, from flat to full on a 13 amps socket how long does it take?

‘My other car’s a Vanquish S Ultimate” [drops mic, walks off]

Love it!

Just don’t talk about the mpg, it might cause a storm.

But just how much electricity is in a gallon

In the USA the charging points were everywhere, they were needed though with aircon running the range dropped by 1/3, Id still have one though in the blink of an eye. The only 'slight' issue is £££££££££ BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6