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verydisco

Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2952

2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Tangiers Orange

4.4L TDV8 ZF 8HP70 flush : special technique?

Hi Gang,

My 4.4L TDV8 L322 will soon get a 8spped transmission full flush (as in they plug to the transmission fluid circuit and inject more oil that it would contain, replacing 100% of the old oil and the fit a new ZF filter.

Since they have not done it yet on a 4.4L L322, (they did my 4.L4 Petrol one and many Sports, Disco and so on of course, being a ZF retailer) so I wanted to check with any specialist here if there is a particular technique to do it (i.e. lift the engine à la TDV6 RRS and Disco 3/4? or any thing I should know/tell them?

Thanks in advance Lads.

I have already send a message about this to Craig Meister lads but there might be transmisison specialist here too - feedback will be useful for all current and upcoming owners here l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

2nd Jan 2015 2:28pm

stan
Site Moderator

Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: a moderate moderated moderator moderating moderately in moderation
Posts: 35874

RRphil knows loads about auto boxes , hopefully he will pick up on your post.. ... - .- -.

Y. O. L. O.
.

2nd Jan 2015 2:38pm

RRPhil

Member Since: 22 Aug 2011
Location: Blackburn, Lancashire
Posts: 1040

I’ll be looking to buy a 2012 L322 in the summer (Westminster or Autobiography) so I need to do some swotting up on the 8HP70 before them. If I can find a used transmission cheap enough I’ll maybe buy one off eBay and get it to pieces.

Regarding fluid changes, let’s start with the manufacturer’s recommendations. Like all the latest ZF units i.e. from the 5-speeds onward, ZF say the 8HP70 transmission is ‘lifetime fill’ and only recommend a fluid change at 50,000 to 75,000 miles if the vehicle has :
a) done a lot of continuous running at high speed
b) been thrashed
c) been used a lot for towing
i.e. conditions that would cause the fluid to run at elevated temperatures and therefore accelerate the oxidation process

This is detailed in their TE-ML_11 specification which is updated every few months :

http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/document/...-ML_11.pdf

Click image to enlarge

Interestingly, Land Rover recommend a fluid change at only 30,000 miles for the 8HP70 for ‘severe duty’ maintenance.

It’s imperative that any fluid change procedure uses the correct fluid – in this case ZF Lifeguard Fluid 8

Click image to enlarge

ZF Lifeguard Fluid 8 was originally Shell L12108 so it’s interesting to see ZF’s recently-added reference to the Petronas Tutela fluid which is fully, rather than partially, synthetic.

Click image to enlarge

None of the recommendations mention filter changes.

I would strongly recommend that only a genuine Filtran sump pan/filter should be used as there are a number of cheap(er) pattern parts out there. I notice, for example, that Britpart offer a service kit with the correct fluid

Click image to enlarge

but I have no idea whether the sump pan is a genuine Filtran one or not.

Land Rover sell the sump kit LR065238 (was LR023294) for around £180 and the fluid (LR023288) for an eye-watering £48.90 per litre so it’s understandable that people will shop around. The Lifeguard Fluid 8 on eBay seems to all come from Germany and is priced at around £17-£18/litre (including delivery). Incar sell it for £23.94/litre.

The sump pan on the Range Rover can be replaced without having to resort to releasing the engine mount and jacking up the engine like they had to on the Disco 3/4 (hence people swapping out the 6HP26 plastic sumps for the steel ones with the separate filter).

My preference (and I emphasize that this is just my personal opinion) would be to drain and refill the transmission every 30,000 miles, with a sump pan/filter change at every other refill (i.e. every 60,000 miles). Clearly a drain and refill is just a fluid ‘refresh’ as it only replaces around half of the fluid and therefore shouldn’t upset the existing transmission adaptions too much and risk overloading the clutches as they struggle to re-establish the specified shift times.

Regarding flushing - if they use the genuine fluid for the flushing process then I would imagine that it must be very expensive due to the wastage. If they instead use a cheaper ‘compatible’ fluid then I personally would stay well away. I think you should first check what fluid they’re intending to use.

Phil

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

17th Jan 2015 3:45pm

verydisco

Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2952

Über than you Phil ! fantastic. l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

18th Jan 2015 9:14pm

verydisco

Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2952

EDIT :

Checked with them, they do use ZF's oils and Filtran filters l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Last edited by verydisco on 19th Jan 2015 4:04pm. Edited 1 time in total

19th Jan 2015 3:45pm

ebajema

Member Since: 24 Mar 2011
Location: New Plymouth
Posts: 4782

2010 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Galway Green

Maybe I should see if I can source the Petronas Tutela cheaply here and start exporting it to the UK !!! I will now leave my gearbox filter/fluid change till I have it here or ship some Tutela to UK before it ships to another location MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

19th Jan 2015 3:57pm

KurtVerbose

Member Since: 08 Aug 2010
Location: Les Arses
Posts: 5848

2007 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Great post, as ever Phil.

19th Jan 2015 4:16pm

RRPhil

Member Since: 22 Aug 2011
Location: Blackburn, Lancashire
Posts: 1040

ebajema wrote:
Maybe I should see if I can source the Petronas Tutela cheaply here and start exporting it to the UK !!!

Ahh yes, of course, Petronas are a Malaysian company

This is a copy of the same section from ZF’s TE-ML_11 specification from exactly a year ago (January 2014) and, as you can see, there’s no mention of the Tutela AS8 fluid.

Click image to enlarge

Phil

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

19th Jan 2015 5:54pm

RRPhil

Member Since: 22 Aug 2011
Location: Blackburn, Lancashire
Posts: 1040

ebajema wrote:
I will now leave my gearbox filter/fluid change till I have it here or ship some Tutela to UK before it ships to another location

Eugene,

Just for the avoidance of doubt, the ZF 6HP28X transmission fitted in your 5.0 SC Range Rover uses Lifeguard Fluid 6 (Shell M1375.4) and it's only the 6HP28AF versions, with the integral 4WD for Audi and Bentley, which use Lifeguard Fluid 8.

Phil

19th Jan 2015 9:11pm

160dmb

Member Since: 16 Dec 2012
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 461

2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

I am just thinking about this oil and filter change for the 8 speed box myself, have asked Dan for the parts prices.

Did you either of you ever get this gearbox oil and filter change done, if so what did you do and what were the results?

Nothing wrong with mine at all, it's just done decent (90/-) miles and I am thinking that oil is cheaper than gearboxes......

Thanks in advance 2016 (L405) Autobiography in Black with Ivory - for ULEZ
2014 (L405) VSE in Black with Ivory
2011 (L322) VSE in Black with Ivory
2005 (3.2 V6) Porsche Cayenne in Black with Savanna
1999 (P38) VSE in Burgundy (?) with Sand

15th Jun 2015 9:26am

verydisco

Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2952

Hi, did mine (on the 4.4L TDV8) at 115.000 Km, did not feel any difference but the oil was obviously used and dirty.

I would really recommend it since, as you've mentioned, oil is cheaper than a box.

That said, the 8 speed box is pretty much bulletproof, but oil and filter renewal will certainly be an asset once you wish to sell or if you keep the Rangie for another 50/60.000 Km - which is the period the oil should be replaced if you want to keep it forever. l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

15th Jun 2015 9:38am

ajac8

Member Since: 04 Oct 2011
Location: Shakespeares County
Posts: 1672

2013 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Baltic Blue

I've just been quoted £199.00 plus vat for the Britpart kit DA6106 which sounds quite reasonable to me given the fluid prices mentioned above.

Three questions of those who are more knowledgeable than me...

1. is the filter part of the pan or is is a separate item (outside this Britpart kit) and
2. for a averagely competent person - is the fluid change a DIY job?
3. any special tools required. I've checked the wiki but nothing so far.

Thanks chaps 405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

15th Jun 2015 4:42pm

verydisco

Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2952

Hi

This kit will only replace 50% of the fluid, I would really try to find a specialist that would replace 100%. More expensive but much more efficient.

Otherwise, yes, the standard flush is doable by any DIYer indeed. NOT so much when it comes to replace 100%, as you need the machine and there is a temperature activated valve that will not let you flush it all that easy anyway.

So in a nutshell :
- 50% flush for £200: good
- 100% flush pobably +£400: excellent

But both solutions are better than not doing anything! l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

15th Jun 2015 4:53pm

ajac8

Member Since: 04 Oct 2011
Location: Shakespeares County
Posts: 1672

Thanks for that. Is the pan a filter too? 405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

15th Jun 2015 9:21pm

verydisco

Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2952

oui l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžÎžloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

15th Jun 2015 11:09pm

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