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marcochezzi

Member Since: 19 Jun 2016
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 99

2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 5.0 SC V8 Fuji White

Whel balance issues, or is it??

So my 2011 5.0SC is driving me nuts wheel balance wise. The original rims were replaced with new JLR 20" rims probably 6 months back give or take a few months as they were damaged and repairs were not in the agenda.

I replaced the tyres mid January, Continental SP5's 265 45 20's, and while the rims run perfectly and the tyres are balanced perfectly, I have what feels like wheel balance vibration at around 130-140kph, not steering shimmy, more in the seat of your pants sensation.

It "feels" like the bump gets worse at that speed if I load the Fattie power a little more because of an uphill..

Today I returned to the tyre fitment centre and they replaced the tyre's for the same make but SP2's..

Perfectly balanced, rims run proper round, no buckles, and still the same vibration in the bum, just between 120-130kph this time, so slightly lower speed..

I doubt its propshaft related as that would be more higher frequency vibration, more like a rumble. Doubt its diff related, I guess it could be sideshafts causing a misbalance, don't know...

She is on 110 000 km, can the symptoms described be due to worn rear suspension bushes, anyone have any experience in this regard??

Fitment centre want to fit pirelli's tomorrow, again no charge, so they are doing a sterling job at looking after their client, but I think that the issue is not wheel or tyre here, and I feel bad at their expense in this regard..

Can anyone shed some further light here please!!

Many thanks - Marco

2nd Mar 2018 2:35pm

nicksaab

Member Since: 28 May 2013
Location: Wimbledon and West Wales
Posts: 560

2016 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Corris Grey

Sticky brake caliper would give that sort of vibration at speed. Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

2nd Mar 2018 4:55pm

Strider

Member Since: 08 Jun 2015
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 507

2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Zermatt Silver

Hi
As you say its worth checking the suspension bushes and while your there check the wheel bearings for play.
I would also check the prop shaft UJ's at each end.
Also, sometimes to balance the prop shafts small curved strips of metal are welded on the tube body then skimmed on a lathe.
It has been known for these to sometimes fall off through rust and cause a general vibration through everything.
Good luck hope you find the cause.

2nd Mar 2018 8:44pm

doclees

Member Since: 25 Jun 2015
Location: PA
Posts: 672

What makes you think wheel balance? When my tires are out it becomes noticeable in the front end. It also makes every other slightly worn joint resonant. Rears need to be way out to notice. My tire guys say that large tires are a pain to get balanced perfectly.

2nd Mar 2018 9:43pm

marcochezzi

Member Since: 19 Jun 2016
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 99

Strider wrote:
Hi
As you say its worth checking the suspension bushes and while your there check the wheel bearings for play.
I would also check the prop shaft UJ's at each end.
Also, sometimes to balance the prop shafts small curved strips of metal are welded on the tube body then skimmed on a lathe.
It has been known for these to sometimes fall off through rust and cause a general vibration through everything.
Good luck hope you find the cause.

Thanks Strider, the propshafts have CV joints on both ends, with a single UJ by the centre bearing on the rear prop. Everything "feels" fine, but to test the centre bearing I need to remove the entire exhaust again, so I will probably tackle that next weekend time allowing.

On Saturday past the tyre dealer fitted new set of michelins all around, and they are much better, but still not perfect, this Monday / Tuesday coming they will fit set of new Pirelli's as a 4th comparison..

I am picking up a tremendous amount of negativity on Conti's on local forums, many many out of round issues..

During the process of fitting the Michelins I had the opportunity to place the fattie on the wheel alignment bay, which allowed me to stand in the pit under the vehicle where I was then able to use a crowbar against each suspension bush to test for excessive play, and they all seemed quite fine, not weird play or knocking at all.
By the way we live at approx 1900 m altitude, we do not have humidity issues and while we have summer rainfall, there is no rust on my fattie, winters are dry and no salt used on the roads so I guess we are quite lucky in this regard, our cars last a long long time..

I checked the front halfshafts for play and they were fine, nothing out of the ordinary, the rear is a different story though as I have a very small amount of play on the right rear inner CV, in essence standing under the car pushing upwards on the inner rear right CV allows a small rocking motion, not sure if the bearing in the diff is setup poorly allowing for play. I must stress that the movement is small, probably a couple of tenths at the most, but its there while there is none on the left rear halfshaft, just possibly this could cause the imbalance but somehow I do not think that is it..

By the way, with the fatty in the air on all 4 corners, we ran her in lowrange to keep wheel revolutions low, and checked each wheel for hub runout, just in case, and there was none, all 4 halfshafts running nice and true, nothing bent..

Front bearings were replaced about 5 weeks ago, I used original LR supplied bearings, forget the brand name, but same make as the originals which came off. I have not replaced rear bearings, but there is no play or noise from the back wheels..

Last edited by marcochezzi on 4th Mar 2018 9:38pm. Edited 1 time in total

4th Mar 2018 9:18pm

marcochezzi

Member Since: 19 Jun 2016
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 99

doclees wrote:
What makes you think wheel balance? When my tires are out it becomes noticeable in the front end. It also makes every other slightly worn joint resonant. Rears need to be way out to notice. My tire guys say that large tires are a pain to get balanced perfectly.

Thanks Doclees, simply put the frequency of vibration or "bump" feels in line with tyre rotational speed, I know that sounds like a bunch of croc but propshaft misbalance vibration is generally higher frequency, I have battled for years in that regard on my Jeep CJ7.

Then there's a sweet "spot" where obviously the harmonic is at its highest because the "thump" or bump is quite significant, I do not know if a small mis-balance on a driveshaft could produce such force & feel.

Maybe its rear shocks as well, which I should replace, but with the mystery snake oil in these electrically "adaptive" shocks its not exactly a cheap diagnostic as its JLR dealer only goods in this neck of the woods..

4th Mar 2018 9:31pm

marcochezzi

Member Since: 19 Jun 2016
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 99

nicksaab wrote:
Sticky brake caliper would give that sort of vibration at speed.

Never thought of that, I should take a look at that, thank you for the suggestion..

4th Mar 2018 9:35pm

GraemeS

Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Wagga area
Posts: 2669

Have the tie-rod ball-joints and the rack been checked?

5th Mar 2018 3:43am

Cam-Tech-Craig

Member Since: 04 Aug 2011
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 16341

2015 Range Rover SVAutobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

Why are you running that size of tyre? I believe worldwide they should be running 255 50 20... Could this be a small issue???

I too would be checking brakes/calipers/pads etc etc etc... They are well known (at your cars age) to run through rear callipers, a simple heat check side to side should rule this issue “in or out” sir

Maybe change them anyhow, as if they haven’t started playing up quite yet they won’t be far from

5th Mar 2018 10:22am

marcochezzi

Member Since: 19 Jun 2016
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 99

GraemeS wrote:
Have the tie-rod ball-joints and the rack been checked?

Nope, certainly I cannot feel any play in the steering, and when I visually check the tierods there is no abnormal play or movement due to worn joints.

would steering rack wear not result in a steering wheel shimmy??

5th Mar 2018 2:12pm

marcochezzi

Member Since: 19 Jun 2016
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 99

Unnecessary quote removed

Thanks Craig, just a question, you refer to the calipers needing replacement, are you meaning the discs or the actual calipers, do they (calipers) go faulty??

Front discs and bearings and pads replaced one month back give or take, rears are still fine but I will do the pads soon enough..

You are correct about the tyre size, however here the 265 45 20 is an easier find, crazy as it might seem.. Dimension wise its not that much different, 1cm wider, 20mm smaller diameter (mine).

5th Mar 2018 2:18pm

Sandyt

Member Since: 07 Nov 2013
Location: Wraysbury Windsor
Posts: 2280

2007 Range Rover Supercharged 4.2 SC V8 Buckingham Blue

Cam-Tech-Craig wrote:
Why are you running that size of tyre? I believe worldwide they should be running 255 50 20... Could this be a small issue???

I too would be checking brakes/calipers/pads etc etc etc... They are well known (at your cars age) to run through rear callipers, a simple heat check side to side should rule this issue “in or out” sir

Maybe change them anyhow, as if they haven’t started playing up quite yet they won’t be far from

+1 had similar and it was offside rear calliper sticking so replaced them both

sound advice from Craig

5th Mar 2018 10:51pm

Cam-Tech-Craig

Member Since: 04 Aug 2011
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 16341

The rear callipers sticking have been an ongoing issue for years sir

6th Mar 2018 12:31am

marcochezzi

Member Since: 19 Jun 2016
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 99

Thanks Craig, honestly did not know that, will get some prices today and probably order and be done with it, another tick of the box..!!..

6th Mar 2018 6:44am

marcochezzi

Member Since: 19 Jun 2016
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 99

Sandyt wrote:
Cam-Tech-Craig wrote:
Why are you running that size of tyre? I believe worldwide they should be running 255 50 20... Could this be a small issue???

I too would be checking brakes/calipers/pads etc etc etc... They are well known (at your cars age) to run through rear callipers, a simple heat check side to side should rule this issue “in or out” sir

Maybe change them anyhow, as if they haven’t started playing up quite yet they won’t be far from

+1 had similar and it was offside rear calliper sticking so replaced them both sound advice from Craig

Thank you Sandyt!!

6th Mar 2018 6:45am

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