Hi everyone,

I’m working through lots of theories in my head with this one, and would appreciate any input you could offer.

3.6 tdv8 issue (2009). Engine runs sweet, no smoke, plenty of power - apart from a recurring issue.

Before the engine is up to operating temp, when getting up to speed for the first time, if I apply anything more than light throttle I get dark grey smoke, and quite a lot of it. Revs always above 2k RPM when this happens. Under these conditions, the engine feels a bit laboured. If I persist with this for more than a few seconds, I am met with an engine system fault and limp mode. If I restart the car and use light throttle until she’s up to temp, then we carry on no problem. Once up to temp, I can drive however I like without any issue or smoke.

I initially suspected EGRs, so blanked those off to no avail. Then I suspected boost hoses, I have checked all the top ones and replaced one which had a slight split. Haven’t got to the bottoms yet.

Suspected split in a manifold, sprayed both of those with soapy water and can’t find anything.

Turbo actuators can be heard sweeping on ignition on and off but haven’t seen with my own eyes.

Suspected turbos but feels unlikely given how specific this issue is.

Both garages who have had her plugged in claim nothing is stored, and one was a LR Indy.

I feel this would be a doddle if it were all the time. It’s the ‘until she’s warm’ part that I find strange.

Any guidance on what I should poke next would be much appreciated, I don’t like being beaten but feeling quite frustrated with this one. 2008/58 FFRR 3.6 TDV8 Vogue

Last edited by jonminns on 6th Apr 2020 11:41am. Edited 1 time in total

Jon
Sounds like a fuel issue, how long since a filter change ? Check the fuel lines for a loose fitting also check the return fuel line. I'd run a cleaner and then change the fuel filter, Then see what happens. As there is no fault code it does suggest that it's in mechanical area,

Laurie

Thanks Laurie, I will start focusing some attention on the fuel lines and rails. I haven’t had the car long and couldn’t tell you when the filter was last done, so will switch that out. 2008/58 FFRR 3.6 TDV8 Vogue

Hi guys. Any other theories on this? I’ve traced the leak off pipes, no leaks. New fuel filter too. No evidence of fuel leaks at all. Unfortunately no further on...

Thanks in advance 2008/58 FFRR 3.6 TDV8 Vogue

Jon
Sorry you had no joy with the fuel system ! Considering you have blanked your EGR valves, could it be a sticky wastegate ( spray with WD40 then lubricate when free) or the turbo actuator is sticking and not fully opening, until it gets warm ? Have a read of this post, I hope it's helpful.

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic35415.html?highlight=turbo

Laurie

What are the fault codes?

Thanks for your replies. Going to try my hand with SDD when the cable arrives and when i've put the engine bay back together enough to run it, as i'm in the middle of stripping down to get at the oil cooler in the vee. I pulled the MAP sensors out yesterday and they're coated in black oil so will give those a clean. Throttle bodies seem free and easy but diagnostics will tell more.

I had thought about sticky wastegate/actuator - will see what i can monitor on live values soon hopefully.

Now i have got the passenger side heatshield off i can see there is some diesel residue on the rocker covers but hard to tell where it's coming from. Will likely do the leak off o-rings and go from there. But all fuel supply lines/pipes/fittings seem good so far.

On another note, once i get it running again do i need to put the heatshields back on right away? The rearmost bolts are a nightmare to get at (particularly on the driver's side... still haven't worked out how to remove that). 2008/58 FFRR 3.6 TDV8 Vogue

I think you should try put a vid up of the smoke,
The engine will run richer when cold to aid warm up. It cant be the turbo actuator as the engine managment adds fuel to match the air flow etc... id be cleaning the maf and boost pressure sensors like you said and se if that helps or start looking for a boost leak , there may be a small crack in the manifold or rocker cover situations (which quite a few people have had) which seals up when they warm up, I think there is a video on youtube of a guy doing a smoke test on these components looking for leaks , other than that check all hose clamps and look for sooty residue leaking

Id also check the injector balancing offset with a diag tool when the engine is stone cold and see if it changes when warm etc, If you have a tool check the boost readings and maf on each bank also which sould be very much the same



Dave 2010 3.6TDV8 Autobiography
Bas remap, Egr deleted (blanked & via remap) , Cold air intake, Turbo back exhaust, Provent 200 catch can, Banks idash gauge, 275/55/R20

GAP Diagnostics

Past - 02 & 03 TD6 And an 1984 Classic

Thanks Dave

Got the drivers side cover off today and cleaned the rocker cover down, found a crack at the top near the heatshield mount stud and loads of oil on the heat shield. Now researching how to replace the rocker cover! Although wondering whether to try a repair of epoxy or similar first.

Morning all,

I've searched for every term possible on the forum about repairing the manifolds, and it seems it's not an ideal solution but sikaflex is the better option. So i've ordered some sikaflex 291 marine, but reading the datasheet it indicates one should use an activator to pre-treat non-porous materials such as plastic. Has anyone had any experience with the activator? Seems to be suggested to use Sika 205. Expensive though at £25! 2008/58 FFRR 3.6 TDV8 Vogue

There was someone on here who had a cracked inlet manifold and used a plastic weld kit to repair. These are often used by marine engine mechs apparently. Try an open internet search and see what pops up.

Im glad you found your problem.
I dont like the chances of a long term seal but worth a try, I think you will seal it for sure short term so it will be interesting to see how you go and how it holds up.... metho or any white oil free spirit or even acetone i would use....

Now i would have thought a product like devocn or an epoxy would be good ... sikaflex is amazing stuff when it bonds as you probably know thru your research , i guess whatever you use what is of most importance is it needs to handle rather high temp and temp changes constantly ... be sure to key up the area well with some sand paper etc before activating"

There are some plastic special type products which even claim to bond to hpde etc which is all but impossible like this

https://www.selleys.com.au/products/adhesi...lastic-fix

On another note i think it's important we all make note that the covers which screw down to these studs must be tightened gently without too much pressure as im wondering if someone over tightened it at some point leading to your failure



Dave 2010 3.6TDV8 Autobiography
Bas remap, Egr deleted (blanked & via remap) , Cold air intake, Turbo back exhaust, Provent 200 catch can, Banks idash gauge, 275/55/R20

GAP Diagnostics

Past - 02 & 03 TD6 And an 1984 Classic

I'm glad to have found it too! By the looks of it, this has been going on for quite some time, the whole area and the heatshield is caked in gungy soot mess. The service history also has a couple of mentions of investigation for lack of power leading to cleaning EGR valves, replacing hoses etc. I wonder if this was the issue all along. Grabbing hold of the spigot where the rear rubber hose attaches from the top manifold, i can wiggle it and the crack opens up. Quite a long crack, maybe 2-3 inches in total.

Hard to tell exactly where the crack started but for sure, but i think a heavy handed mechanic could have quite easily caused this. The stud is quite long so could even have happened whilst levering the heatshield out.

I think i will order the primer and activator to give it the best chance at adhesion. I guess not sure whether to apply it in small layers or put a lot on and wait ages for it to cure. I guess i could actually open up the crack and try to bond the pieces together, before adding more on top.

Sikaflex state up to 140 degrees heat but i like the idea of it remaining elastic/flexible to deal with the expansion and contraction. I think it's worth trying a fix like this first, might get lucky and it works out long term. I've read lots of posts where owners have repaired with jb-weld or similar epoxy and it's failed due to lack of flexibility.

I had a look at plastic welding this morning. Seems to be some folks who go at it with a soldering iron and no filler, in order to fuse everything back together resulting in a rippled seam. And some who use the hot air tools with filler rods. My downside for either of these, is i've never done it before and think whilst it's a more permanent repair, i'd have to make a groove for the filler and if i mess it up, it's probably game over for the part.

Clone mongoose cable and SDD arrived today so looking forward to having a poke about with that once the car's back together.

I will of course report back how i get on. 2008/58 FFRR 3.6 TDV8 Vogue

I have the same model as you and have gone through this. Not a nice experience.

The problem started with just the odd “bong” and limp mode, especially when going uphill. This gradually became more frequent, and I eventually spotted the small crack in the driver’s side manifold - right at the back. I put some Sikaflex 221 on but within a short time the crack extended towards the front of the engine. More Sikaflex failed to stop the crack extending even more.

In the end I had a new manifold fitted at a cost of just under £1,000.

I wish you well with your (different) Sikaflex fix.

I don’t think epoxy or other sealers and glues will work, nylon 66 is notoriously difficult to glue or bond too. Welding may work but the amount of oil and dirt may well work against you, you are probably better off just biting the bullet and fitting new manifolds.