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GAC23



Member Since: 27 Nov 2013
Location: Herts
Posts: 611

United Kingdom 2015 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Indus Silver

Cam-Tech-Craig wrote:
Ive sent you the information via a PM sir... Thumbs Up


Could I trouble you for the same information please?

Thank you. What do I put here then?

Post #619712 12th Jan 2022 3:01pm
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socialrover



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 126

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography SDV6 Santorini Black

JCW wrote:
No experience but surely this logic is flawed - insurance needs to cover the cost to replace, i.e. the market value to purchase, not what you’d likely receive if you traded it in, which is the market value to sell Whistle


Ha good point - I'll try this line on him when he rings me back .

Post #619742 12th Jan 2022 7:27pm
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socialrover



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 126

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography SDV6 Santorini Black

Bl4ckD0g wrote:
Following a burglary I managed to get the loss adjuster to nearly double. The muppet tried every trick in the book for me to accept but I refused. And it went so far as me feeling compelled to file a formal complaint with the insurance company. They actually agreed with me when I presented the logic, overruled their appointed loss adjuster, and gave me the full amount I was after.

So yes it is possible, but if the loss adjuster doesn’t budge speak to your insurance company.


Thanks Blackdog , that is encouraging to hear - Ill try be a little more persuasive if he doesn't budge ! I will keep you updated .

Post #619743 12th Jan 2022 7:29pm
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Zebedee



Member Since: 09 Jun 2016
Location: Cheshire/South Manchester
Posts: 307

United Kingdom 2013 Range Rover Vogue SDV8 Santorini Black

JCW wrote:
No experience but surely this logic is flawed - insurance needs to cover the cost to replace, i.e. the market value to purchase, not what you’d likely receive if you traded it in, which is the market value to sell Whistle


I'd always understood that the insurance value was the cost of replacing the vehicle from a reputable dealer. This is not the trade price, nor is is the private price. It is in the insurance companies interest to minimise what they pay out in the event of a claim, though if you do need to claim stick out for what you are entitled to. Current:
- 2013 L405 4.4 TDV8 Vogue
Sold:
- 2004 L322 4.4 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 2002 L322 4.4 HSE (having fixed timing chain guides)
- 2000 P38 4.6 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 1981 2-door In-Vogue
- 1980 Ex-Army SIII LWB
- 1976 SIII LWB
- 1968 SIIA
Stripped for parts:
- 2003 L322 4.4 Vogue

Post #619791 13th Jan 2022 10:14am
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Rob99



Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1235

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Santorini Black

socialrover wrote:
Update from insurance company -I had a call from the insurance company today , it seems they use trade in valuations to price a car and not current forecourt prices.


Have you checked your policy wording? My policy specifically states they will value vehicles based on the current retail price for a similar vehicle purchased from a dealer. 2017 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography
2012 4.4 TDV8 Westminster - Gone, but not forgotten

Post #619799 13th Jan 2022 11:20am
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garyRR



Member Since: 13 Mar 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 222

United Kingdom 

100% check your policy wording. Unless the policy is from a company you've never heard of, I highly doubt the policy wording mentions anything of the sort to do with 'trade' values.

The wording from my policy:

"The insurer will not pay more than the market value of your car at the time of the loss or damage, ...""

"Market value is defined as: The cost of replacing your car with one of a similar make, model, age, mileage and condition..."


...i'm 99.9% sure it's your loss adjuster trying to pull a fast one, knowing some people will be happy with the figure offered. Simply call out the section in your policy wording as to what you're entitled to and screenshot 2 examples for sale and they'll back down. Note: if your vehicle is on finance, your normal motor insurance will not settle your finance - it will only settle the value of the vehicle. Gap insurance pays the outstanding finance. 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Post #619923 14th Jan 2022 2:09am
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EdJ



Member Since: 30 Jan 2015
Location: London
Posts: 180

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography 2.0 PHEV Balmoral Blue

Sorry to hear about the stolen car. A number of friends local to me have had their cars stolen - often Land Rovers, but also BMWs.

I'm paranoid about this and have been using a Disklok steering wheel lock for many years now. Of course, they are not going to stop a determined thief, however, my understanding is that you just need to make your car less attractive to steal than the next car. As others have said, they want to steal the car as quickly as possible, and without any noise or disruption.

Does anyone know whether the new Range Rover has improvements on the security side? These days I struggle to get insurance for my car. 2018 Range Rover L405 PHEV AB

Post #619929 14th Jan 2022 7:55am
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GGDR



Member Since: 26 Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 3390

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Quote:
Cam-Tech-Craig wrote:
Ive sent you the information via a PM sir... Thumbs Up


Could I trouble you for the same information please?


Me too pls Craig when you get a sec. Thx very much
. Cheers, Greg
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

Post #619944 14th Jan 2022 11:27am
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socialrover



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 126

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography SDV6 Santorini Black

garyRR wrote:
100% check your policy wording. Unless the policy is from a company you've never heard of, I highly doubt the policy wording mentions anything of the sort to do with 'trade' values.

The wording from my policy:

"The insurer will not pay more than the market value of your car at the time of the loss or damage, ...""

"Market value is defined as: The cost of replacing your car with one of a similar make, model, age, mileage and condition..."


...i'm 99.9% sure it's your loss adjuster trying to pull a fast one, knowing some people will be happy with the figure offered. Simply call out the section in your policy wording as to what you're entitled to and screenshot 2 examples for sale and they'll back down. Note: if your vehicle is on finance, your normal motor insurance will not settle your finance - it will only settle the value of the vehicle. Gap insurance pays the outstanding finance.


Rob , Gary

I looked through the small print and the wording form the insurance company ( Esure - also own Shelias wheels ) is similar to yours Gary

"We won’t pay more than the market value of your car at the time of loss, less the total excess payable."

I then went onto their Glossary to see what 'Market value ' means and it quotes

" This is the value your car would have held on the open market, if you had tried to sell it just before your accident or loss (written off, or stolen and not recovered). This is worked out by looking at what vehicles of the same make and model, similar age, condition and mileage are currently selling for "

I had this information ready when the 'engineer' called back today ( a day later than he promised ) .He replied you can't use adverts as they are what dealers are asking and not necessarily what they are selling for as cars sell less than the asking price .
I then asked him how he had worked out the value of my car to which he replied he used Glasses , Parkers and Cap .I then asked which valuation he used, trade in , private or trade to which he replied the price guides " tell us what cars are actually selling for ".
I again asked which one of the 3 valuations he used and he then replied trade in .I then used JCW'S line about valuation , to which he just repeated his own point again .

I then asked if he had ever tried buying a car recently because every time I've bought a car recently ( for my two daughters ) the line from the salesman has been " we are priced to sell and thats the market price sir ' basically take it or leave it .
He then replied that the car market is crazy at the moment and dealers are asking crazy prices ( I paused for a second to try and follow his line of thinking for offering me a trade in valuation ) , but didn't think his response dignified a reply .

I then said I dint think we are going to get any resolution on this as there is a £7k price difference between what they are offering and what I can find to replace the car .

He said he would go and talk to his supervisor and get back to me .

It angers me a little that they can see exactly what a replacement like for like vehicle is costing in the market place, and yet they still try and not keep their end of the deal i.e. pay to replace and use sneaky tactics such as using trade in values from guides , which Jo public doesn't have access to .

I will keep negotiating - luckily i have a access to other vehicles otherwise time pressure would be a factor to close the deal .


Last edited by socialrover on 14th Jan 2022 9:33pm. Edited 3 times in total

Post #619985 14th Jan 2022 9:21pm
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Bl4ckD0g



Member Since: 16 Feb 2020
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 1278

Netherlands 2010 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

It’s very frustrating but that is why they are called a loss adjuster. Scum of the earth at times when a lot of people need support the most.

As I mentioned before, get in contact with customer service if your insurance as these guys take the Michael and file a complaint. They’ll come around to your fair point of view.

Post #619986 14th Jan 2022 9:28pm
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garyRR



Member Since: 13 Mar 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 222

United Kingdom 

Whilst I can't say exactly, some of what he's saying seems jibberish. I can't imagine Sheila's Wheels ever train people to be sneaky and focus on offering trade in values only. Whilst it's pretty normal practice to offer a low settlement figure which then needs negotiation, it's really not your issue if the car market is "crazy" and prices are high.

You paid your insurance and item X.i.x.i.3.a.b from your terms and conditions clearly states what you're entitled to - someone more senior will appreciate that a good proportion of the time, there are vehicles which won't take offers. Leaving a customer unfairly disadvantaged is a valid FCA complaint.

Time to kick up a fuss and speak with complaints, highlighting the similar vehicles you have found, to prove they need to offer more.


I had all this rubbish when I'd got back from working away, to find an attempted burglary had been made, causing thousands worth of damage to windows, doors, guttering and roof tiles. For one of the items, they priced the repair at £15. I said "good luck getting a builder out for £15 including parts". I called and complained every day. I won't be the last in that situation and certainly not the first. Eventually they paid out exactly everything i'd got prices for and I got a couple of hundred pounds compensation for their service falling below standard.

They will eventually be forced to relent so, keep at it and don't accept their offer of payment. Make clear you're looking to recover damages from them by not having use of a car, a decision they could have made much sooner. Highlight you did the right things to prevent your car being stolen E.g. parked on a driveway with security lighting, had a tracker fitted, didn't leave anything on show etc etc and... they're not doing anything to help make things right.

I always say to myself (despite working for the fourth largest in the UK!), the role of an insurance company is to try and get out of paying for anything. Therefore, just pick the cheapest - you'll have the same fight with whoever you go for so, might as well keep as much as you can in your pocket. 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Post #620002 14th Jan 2022 11:27pm
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socialrover



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 126

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography SDV6 Santorini Black

Thanks Gary , ( and others who have offered advice and support ,Black dog ,Rob,Zebedee, and Kot ) , I am definitely encouraged and now definately more determined to hold out for a fair sum .

I will throw in the "not having use of a car" into the conversation also .( whenever he gets round to ringing me back ) .

Glad you got there in the end Gary , its shame it has to be such a battle at what is often a stressful time .

I do hope these 'loss adjusters ' don't find themselves ever having to make a claim - or maybe they should, just to understand how insulting it is to receive an unfair offer !

Post #620021 15th Jan 2022 9:15am
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Bl4ckD0g



Member Since: 16 Feb 2020
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 1278

Netherlands 2010 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

Typically a loss adjuster doesn’t actually work as in a paid employee for an insurance company. Often they work independently and get paid based on the adjustment of the claim. Not a job to do if you have done integrity. I totally recognise that gibberish talk. The one we had to deal with was the same. And then he tried to play off my wife (polite English avoiding confrontation type) against me to pressure us taking what he proposed.

For my camera equipment (some lenses were like £5K) they used grey import prices. And said I should just replace with imports. They try everything. But the only thing that matters is your terms and conditions. And always keep your original terms safe.

Post #620044 15th Jan 2022 1:19pm
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socialrover



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 126

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover Autobiography SDV6 Santorini Black

Update -

Had a call from the engineer and reiterated that I couldn't find anything on the market for at least £6k more than he was offering .

His reply " well thats the amount the guides are showing "

I replied that I would have to decline , he said the prices I was looking at were inflated because ' they included a profit margin for the dealer and therefore wasn't the true value of the car " at this point I realised I wasn't going to get anywhere with this chap so I said , lets just move onto the complaints stage , he said fine I will pass it onto the senior engineer .

In my mind I'm thinking " isn't this the same engineer you keep going back to for authorisation ?" , anyway I didn't say anything .

30 mins later received an email from 'senior engineer 'stating that the valuation guides were agreeing with their offer and they couldn't increase it .And this was the end of their internal assessment by the customer relations team .

I replied saying I couldn't accept the offer and would like to escalate to the next stage .
He sent me an email address of another ( internal ) complaints dept but this email address had the word "exec" in it .ie exec complaints @esure .co.uk !

I await their answer ! If I don't get any resolution at this stage , then the next step is the ombudsman .

Ive asked my friends about their experiences and although none have had to fortunately claim lately , previously there was a bit of negotiation but they distinctly remember trade adverts from auto trader dealers being accepted as good guides to valuations .None had heard of trade guides being used and certainly none had trade in values imposed as valuation figures .

It seems a strong 2nd hand market has caught the companies off hand and they are doing all they can to mitigate paying out the extra strong values .

In summary the argument to be put back in a similar position as before the loss dosnt seem to be policy / law anymore !

Will keep you updated !

Post #620495 18th Jan 2022 8:28pm
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archermav



Member Since: 01 Jun 2015
Location: Black Country
Posts: 304

United Kingdom 2016 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Corris Grey

Good luck, hopefully will get a solution you're happy with.

Post #620705 20th Jan 2022 4:25pm
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