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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2570

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey
Bleeding brakes advice

When I changed my rear callipers a few weeks back I ended up just gravity bleeding them as I don't have a 2nd person to help out. I tried using a brake bleeder suction pump but it just pulled in air from around the nipple when it was loosened and I've had this before on other cars. I'm not 100% convinced I did a good job and with gravity bleeding there is always a risk air will travel up the lines instead of out as the flow is very slow. I've read the workshop sequence with 28 pedal actuations etc which is in my circumstances not an option and as I'm going to the garage next week to get an aircon regas I'll get them to bleed and flush the brakes but as they are not a LR specialist is there anything radically special about the braking system that means it should only be done by a LR approved method? 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #635332 24th Jun 2022 8:43am
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Haylands



Member Since: 04 Mar 2014
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 7879

England 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

IIRC you need a diagnostic tool to bleed the abs pump but I doubt you will need to do that...

I always use gravity bleeding, never had a problem with it, I let it drip for a few minutes after any air bubbles have finished, as long as the pedal is "there" and not spongy you are OK... Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
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Post #635336 24th Jun 2022 9:02am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2570

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

The pedal is solid after shutdown and a few pumps to bleed the servo but it's a bit vague when running. I'm changing the front disks and pads next week so may have another go at gravity bleeding. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #635345 24th Jun 2022 11:31am
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kevinp



Member Since: 28 Sep 2019
Location: Telford
Posts: 1105

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

My brake pedal always seemed spongy with quite a bit of travel even though the brakes worked fine. MD just changed the front to rear steel brake pipes and I could now fart on the brake pedal and they work instantly. Rolling with laughter There is obviously a bit of kit they must use whether electronically or mechanical. Worth asking a local MD to do it?
I'm still getting used to how little travel there is and avoiding nutting the windscreen. Thumbs Up

Post #635350 24th Jun 2022 12:15pm
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Gremlin500



Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1193

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Corris Grey

I recently upgraded all the brakes on my L405 and changed all four flexys at the same time with minimal fluid loss, and used a pressure bleeder at 10bar, but still couldn’t get all the air out, mind I didn’t have the engine running. Second mistake I made was no air vent hole in my plastic drain bottle, slowed down the flow Banging Head Banging Head
Pedal was soggy, so I took it o a LR specialist who had to bleed with engine running and Pathfinder plugged in to run the ABS pump whilst bleeding.

£100 later, solid pedal and better understanding Embarassed

I don’t think the L322 is much different? “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Post #635354 24th Jun 2022 12:41pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2570

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Maybe trip to an MD is on the cards. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #635356 24th Jun 2022 1:53pm
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nino_nino



Member Since: 29 Mar 2015
Location: pocitelj
Posts: 690

Bosnia Herzegovina 2012 Range Rover Autobiography Black TDV8 Santorini Black

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic44822.html 2012 TDV8 Black Edition
2000 Disco. TD5
1975 series III

Post #635359 24th Jun 2022 2:17pm
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Gremlin500



Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1193

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Corris Grey

@ninio_nino:

I used one of THESE:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/laser-manual-brake-bleeder-2ltr/6819j

Maybe it would have worked fine, with engine running and properly vented collection vessel Embarassed

TBH, after 3 full days under the car changing all the brakes & hoses etc, I just ran out of time and went for the quick fix.
Up on a ramp is way faster with all 4 wheels off but one corner at a time bleeding on your driveway is not for everyone.

Good luck, OP! “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Post #635362 24th Jun 2022 2:35pm
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garyRR



Member Since: 13 Mar 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1286

United Kingdom 

Funnily enough I changed one of my rear calipers today (and have the original genuine stripped down already to refurb and sell on).

All I did was gravity bleed and pump the brake until hard then secured the bleed screw. A few bubbles were still sat at the top of the hose so, I finished it off by running the engine for a minute then repeating the process. 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 SDV8

Post #635402 24th Jun 2022 6:55pm
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Gremlin500



Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1193

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Corris Grey

@GaryRR

Yes, if you only do minor work and clamp the hose, you might be lucky and get no air in. But if you do major stuff at all four corners, obviously there’s more chance of air getting in, and unfortunately the calipers are at the lowest point, risking air getting into the ABS pump, then it’s a b*tch to get out. But OTOH, I did make a few Rookie mistakes, so can’t be 100% sure…… 🤔 “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Post #635407 24th Jun 2022 8:23pm
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garyRR



Member Since: 13 Mar 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1286

United Kingdom 

Do 1 at a time. Close the bleed screw each time you can see air running up the tube and have the tube immersed in brake fluid so, if it back-siphons, it's not taking in air. Once one is done and bled, move onto the next one? That way, you're minimising chances of air getting into the system when you don't have all the tools or 2 people to do it.

JayGee has an IID tool - there's an ABS pump purge programme in the app which can be run if needed. 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 SDV8

Post #635425 25th Jun 2022 9:04am
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garyRR



Member Since: 13 Mar 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1286

United Kingdom 

JayGee wrote:
The pedal is solid after shutdown and a few pumps to bleed the servo but it's a bit vague when running. I'm changing the front disks and pads next week so may have another go at gravity bleeding.


JayGee. Nothing special to these brakes so, any garage can bleed them.

A note about the front brakes though - my bleed screws on my Brembos have welded themselves to the threads and despite all the heating, cooling, tapping, knocking in the world, there's no chance of getting them out and they just snap. So when you do the front brakes, try and not disconnect them so you don't have to bleed.

I was going to Scotland the next day and had to fork out £££ on an aftermarket front caliper from Maltings on an overnight delivery. I have since had that Brembo drilled and re-threaded with M12 breathers (existing bleed screws are M10x1.0) but I had to take it to a proper machining workshop to get it done - the garage managed no more than I could. When they drilled it, you could actually see the metal of the breather valves fused itself into the threads. When I have a 2nd car available, I'll take the other Brembo down to get it drilled and re-threaded and then re-fit both Brembo calipers. I'll probably also change all seals and pistons. 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 SDV8

Post #635427 25th Jun 2022 9:22am
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mjdronfield



Member Since: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 7605

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

When the local Land Rover specialist replaced my rear brake pipes and the master cylinder, I had to take it back the following day as the brake pedal was softer than it used to be.

The owner said that the 6 pot Brembo setup is a right pain to bleed…. And mentioned the 28 pumps or whatever that’s already been mentioned. He said they would happily have another go at bleeding it. I left it there for the rest of the day and they sorted it. Back to how it was…..

Thumbs Up 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Post #635431 25th Jun 2022 11:12am
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Barmybrummie



Member Since: 03 Apr 2021
Location: Somewhere in the valleys
Posts: 585

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

Funny you should say that mj, had a phone call this morning from mj fews as having my front discs and pads changed and i asked if it's worth changing the brake fluid considering I've had both the front and rears done, so thought why not. But then he said it's a real pain to do and may not be the same as before in regards to pedal pressure. I'm not in the UK at the moment to look through the mountain of receipts i have for the car to see when it was last changed, if it ever was, but being an ex robotics technician, I'm a bit anal when it comes to TPM (total preventative maintenance) not tyre pressure monitor lol.

Post #635877 1st Jul 2022 8:12pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

I don't know why there's this perceived problem with brake fluid changes, it's nothing unusual on any vehicle - there's no special ju-ju involved, it's 'just' pushing sufficient new fluid through each circuit to replace (or in reality, sufficiently dilute) the old stuff. I did my 08MY in May, pushed three litres through it as it was the colour of a hangover p*ss using a Sealey pressure bleeder (lots of dealers of various marques and some independents use them). The only advice I'd give is don't go above 2.5 bar or you risk bursting the reservoir and if you're bleeding a new line or caliper, use the brake pedal to assist the process by pumping a couple of times whilst the pressure bleeder is doing it's stuff.
This has worked with the Audi Q5 (or was it Q3?) brake booster & master cylinder service action where bleeding the rear brakes was a right pain to get all the air out, in that case we also had the engine running so the brake booster was helping to push a volume of fluid through to get any remaining air out.

Post #635879 1st Jul 2022 8:25pm
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