What a fantastic thread nicksaab. Well done for setting it all out and making it so entertaining. I’ve really enjoyed reading it.

I’m really struck by the contrast between your 100,000+ miles in the 2004 V8, good mileage in the Westie, and then the experience you’ve had with a more recent FF and the main dealer experience. Very best of luck getting the L405 sorted. Loads of great people on here love them, so I’m sure the effort to get it to 100% will be well worth it. Hopefully you’ll be back to normal M4 and farm updates soon.

Thanks again for a great thread.

Tom 2004 L322 4.4 V8 Vogue Bonatti Grey
(205,500 miles and counting.......)

agreed...your last post was interesting... ... - .- -.




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Very interesting story line there, thanks for that.
S.O.S. [Shower Of **ite].

Is there no pride in main dealerships anymore?
In my day, we had good mechanics with dirty overalls, who knew their stuff. Today is seems we have 'technicians' aplomb.
I'll be perfectly honest & say I couldn't afford to take my Westie to a JLR main dealer, I'm fortunate in that I have a brilliant caring Indy in the next town who take pride in their work.

I hope you get this sorted, if they don't play ball use the 'Ombudsman' I did with E.on electricity, fantastic service & result well in my favour. 2012 Orkney Grey Westminster 4.4TDV8 with Ivory interior.........nice!
BMW R1200GS
Alfa Romeo Giulietta
Just one Montesa now, 349 White Wonder
Austin A40 Farina MK2
1975 Morris Marina 1.8TC

Sorry to hear Nick, unfortunately it's threads like this that make me appreciate the late L322s even more

Thanks for all the comments on here and by PM. Just want to say that I love my L405 and its still the best place in the world to be on a long journey and I'm sure once these issues are resolved it will be the fine car it is.

So as an update - I went up to the dealership on Monday afternoon and walked around the car with the Workshop Manager, Master Tech and the Aftersales Manager.

1) Carpet - they all admitted that the carpet was in a state and still water under the drivers seat and are now working out how to resolve

2) Coolant Leak - amazingly after a 200 mile journey the car was showing full coolant although once the pressure had dropped the level dropped significantly. After a day or so of tests they have concluded that the coolant is being lost, but no evidence of it being burnt off, or any pressure issues so unlikely to be head gasket. However they have not as yet identified where the coolant is going - which is still a bit of a worry. They did say that now all the trim and carpet is out they are going to check the heater matrix - reminds me of my P38 experiences. I would have to be convinced given the water seems clear and odourless under the carpet.

3) Power steering issue - the original issue was that the power steering didn't kick in quickly after starting from cold or from stop start. This was originally traced to the Aux battery which was replaced but history shows that it had been replaced immediately before the car was bought by me. They have checked the battery again and it is showed the new one has failed as well (hence why issue is still present) - thats now 3 Aux batteries in 9 months, so they charged it again yesterday and overnight it had failed again. However none of their drain tests are showing any anomalies or modules not sleeping so more investigation needed still too.

4) Tailgate (Upper) Slamming - originally I got the - "they all do it Sir" and then we walked the forecourt and looked at a couple of other cars and unfortunately they both did it too. Doesn't mean that thats what they should do - they should soft close and it just means the alignment is out on all of them. The approach seems to be that they don't think they can do much with it - although the JLR Exec Office believes otherwise - shall see what happens

So no further forward as yet, but at least the faults are clear and agreed (and also confirms I'm not going mad).

The good thing is the relationship between me and the dealer is improving - which is important when there is this much to sort out and JLR Exec office are all over this (which might explain the dealer attention to this!)

Anyway have a new Discovery Sport to run around in for the foreseeable future but not doing much mileage so it won't get much use. It was great to see so many new Defenders lined up on the forecourt. Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

the aux battery has no significants on the power steering...many have flat or have disconnected theirs with no problems...

i think they should be looking elsewhere re this. ... - .- -.




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Agreed Stan - have always had my doubts about the battery diagnosis although when the car was in Wimbledon Service Centre before Christmas for some brake pads they said the same thing about the battery.

Incidently on the Disco Sport the power steering still operates when the engine stops under stop start but on my RR the steering is completely dead on stop - interested to know what others do (that haven't had it disabled!) Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

Nick, this is easy for me to say as i dont own this FF, but i would walk away from it [if you can] as i can see its never going to be what you expect... ... - .- -.




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Appreciate that Stan - in all respects I need the supplying dealer to own the problem - I couldn't, in all conciousness, trade the car in somewhere else in its current position - I couldn't do that to someone else.

It will cost me money to get out of this one - but I'm freelance and whilst work is ok at the moment, I'd rather not be spending cash right if I can help it. So at the moment it suits me the garage attempting to fix things whilst I'm not doing the mileage. If they can't fix this one then it strengthens my hand on the deal for the replacement. Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

fair point Nick..i hope it all gets sorted..  ... - .- -.




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So a bit of an update - I'm currently running around in a Discovery Sport - not a bad car but its not mine!

the AB LE finally crossed the 200k mark last week on a run up to Derby to pick up some farm machinery which was ordered prior to lockdown - finally allowed out of Wales to pick it up! Its sat on 200,500 now but two faults this morning - managed to snap the drivers door handle cable so currently stripping down the door card to replace that and the interior fan has stopped. I've already replaced the FSR a few years ago so looking forward to the joys of replacing that again.

As for the VSE - its still in the garage. And we are still no further forward. So the faults recap:-

1) Interior water under drivers side carpet. They have replaced the carpet and have declared there is no more water ingress. They have no answers for why they told me that last time even though it was still wet. The dealership and I both know the answer (they didn't bother drying the car out last time) but they won't admit it.

2) Aux Battery - they tested the replacement Aux battery they fitted in March and that too is now faulty and they have replaced it. They claim thats fixed the power steering but we shall see when I collect. They have no answer for why its consumed 3 batteries in less than a year - there is no power drain showing on their systems.

3) Upper tailgate not soft closing - ' they all do that sir' er no they all don't do that. Nothing more we can do sir. So I've asked Landrover technical for a definitive answer as to whether or not the upper tailgate is supposed to soft close. Yet again we all know the answer to that but until they are categorically told by Landrover they aren't going to do anything more on it.

4) Coolant leak - well interesting enough the coolant had not dropped on the 200 mile run back to the dealership but did drop overnight. They have run a battery of tests and cannot find a leak anywhere and believe it is down to a large airlock in the system. They have no answer for why the technician did not spot it took 7 litres of coolant less after they replaced the EGR cooler and coolant tank last time

5) New Turbo - well they spotted one of the turbos was leaking oil so have replaced under warranty. They have no answer for why this wasn't spotted at the service, or when the EGR cooler was replaced or when they replaced the turbo actuator last time. The car has done less than 1000 miles since all this was last done. But then they announced they had to fit another one as the new one was faulty and leaking gas

Anyway Landrover Exec are involved - I am actually getting more updates from them than the dealer and they have at this point stepped in and told the dealer to carry out more tests on the coolant and the power drain.

At the end of the day if Landrover Exec and the dealership sign off the car then I'll feel more comfortable trading it in for another one because then I know I will have done everything I can to make sure its right. Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

Huge congratulations on reaching the 200,000 mile mark in your L322 V8 nicksaab! Fantastic news and I love that the milestone happened as it was fetching farm machinery. There can't be a more versatile car than a FFRR.

Just another 500 miles to go and you'll have done 100,000 miles in it in your ownership. What a hero! 2004 L322 4.4 V8 Vogue Bonatti Grey
(205,500 miles and counting.......)

Thanks Tom - hadn't really appreciated that milestone!

Nice little picture of the current landrover fleet.

The restraint shown amongst LR owners on this site is actually quite staggering. You are all gentlemen/women of the very highest order.

This tale is one of utter galactic incompetence on the part of the dealer. If anyone at LR actually reads this forum, they should be all over this now and the dealer needs sacking (along with plenty of others). How the flying blazers they are still in business with this despicable attitute is completeley beyond me and I'd encourage other forum members to start saying it as it is, not as the gentlefolk you are.

I had issues with a LR main dealer a good few years ago and exactly the same attitude prevailed, nothing seems to have changed whatsoever in the intervening 15 years or so (I even managed to involve the then MD of LR,who eventually saw the light and left). It simply isn't acceptable on any level. If it continues LR deserve to go under along with all the other fools, SORT OUT YOUR DEALERS YOU CLOWNS! Drives:
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue - Stornoway Grey
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue SE - Zermatt Silver
1998 BMW E36 M3 GTII

Don't get me wrong RV - it can be easily read that my posts are reading that the Landrover dealer is being let off the hook. It serves no purpose to me or the forum to express my frustration and anger with the dealer but trust me they know.

The Dealer Branch MD, Dealer Group CEO, Dealer LR Franchise manage and Sir Ralf Speth and his team at the CEO office at Landrover are all fully aware of how frustrated I am and the Dealers incompetence has been highlighted in every conversation and email I'm having. However ultimately the dealer has to repair the car and so no amount of lying down and having a tantrum on the showroom floor is really going to help with that.

The issue that staggers me is that on every turn, every response I prove, in writing, that the dealer continues to lie or prove how out of their depth they are with these cars but yet they still continue. I've pointed them to TSB's, I've pointed them to known issues, I've sent them videos of how functions should work properly and yet they still think they can fob me off. Whats more concerning is how many people are being fobbed off.

If its any consolation, other than a service and a battery (both of which will be refunded) I haven't had to pay a penny and it appears that many of the faults, because they were present at time of purchase aren't being paid for by LR warranty but by the dealer themselves. As long as its hurting them in the pocket now, I know I'll be ok in the long term. But also because of that I need Listers to fix the problems - regardless of how long it takes because taking it anywhere else runs the risk of it costing me money. My independent who runs my fleet for me (which is more than just the Landrovers btw) would have had all of these issues resolved inside a few days but would have meant me paying for it.

Landrover Finance had 8 weeks to issue a final response and that 8 weeks was up last night. As most of the faults can be proven to have existed at time of purchase, even though it has gone past 6 months I still have a case for rejection, although its a lot more difficult and complex to unravel. However a response came through from them at 5.55pm last night, saying that they had not managed to complete their investigation and couldn't now give a time line as to when they would but thanking me for my patience and pointing out I could go the Ombudsman. However they are at least 6months - if not a year behind in complaints right now, so thats not going to do a lot of good - although I did lodge a complaint anyway.

But listen- all I need is the car fixed and working right now - I'm not doing a huge mileage - in fact I'm barely doing anything at all as still working from home in Wales rather than commuting to London daily so I can hold out for 6 months or so and then changing for a MY18/19 model which is my plan. Anything still not fixed this time just continues to strength my hand with the finance company eventually.

And also I've travelled over quarter of a million miles in the last 15 years in JLR products - 150k of them have been documented here - I've really not had many problems other than wear and tear at all in that whole time - but its interesting that this is the first time I've experienced the dealer network and the technical teams are really not up to the job. If the laptop doesn't tell them the problem then they just end up component replacing - they have lost the ability to problem solve. On my last dealer visit 3 weeks ago I confronted the Master Tech at the dealer with that exact statement and he proudly retorted that they had several repeat customers bringing 20 year old Jaguars and Landrovers back for their annual services so he had to be doing something right - my response - 'those customers clearly have more money than sense because at £165 per hour labour charge they aren't paying for expertise'

It does ultimately provide me with a long term quandry - given how complex these cars have become and how quickly seemingly small issues can crank up the bill - I feel I have to stay in the dealer network next time to take advantage of the warranty and the power of Landrover behind the brand to resolve problems (even though it doesn't seem like it, if Landrover wasn't involved I think the dealer would have given up trying to fix the issues and we'd be down the legal route by now) so would I want to buy one of these from a non branded dealer and rely on a non branded warranty? Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)