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JST



Member Since: 12 Dec 2013
Location: Somerset
Posts: 422

England 2012 Range Rover Westminster 4.4 V8 Stornoway Grey

grey17 wrote:
Unnecessary quote removed

There is a big difference Martin but if your AT3s work well for muddy tracks and fields then thats fine but, having a Mud and Snow marking and 3PSMF does not make it a true Winter tyre. Winter tyres have many more sipes than an AT3 and the compound structure of the tyre is different.

My General Grabber Snow Grabber Plus have hundreds more sipes than an AT3 and the harder rubber of the AT3 make them fine to drive on during the summer months. Winter tyres are generally too soft for summer driving.

M+S & 3PSMF makes them more of an All Season but not a specialist Winter tyre.


What does make it a true winter tyre if m&s and snowflake doesn't, ie what other standards are there to compare to? Cheers

James

Post #509495 21st Mar 2019 9:44pm
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grey17



Member Since: 31 Aug 2018
Location: ha6
Posts: 54

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Alaska White

What does make it a true winter tyre if m&s and snowflake doesn't, ie what other standards are there to compare to?

Hi James.

It's all down to the construction of the tyre and the rubber/silica compound used to make the tyres.

True Winter tyres have a soft compound and thousands of sipes moulded into the tread blocks which help grip and spread out when on cold surfaces.
The tread design also helps hold onto snow as "snow on snow" is the best grip there is.

Summer tyres, All Season tyres and All Terrain tyres have a harder compound which gets hard and brittle as the temperature drops offering less and less grip.

There is a really great article here which I'll post for you to read as it gives all the standard parameters and tests used for a manufacturer to issue a M+S rating or a 3PMSF symbol.

Worryingly, it only requires a tyre to perform 25% better than a "comparison" tyre to achieve an M+S or 3PMSF rating!

As the old saying goes, its horses for courses and there is no one tyre which works well across all situations and seasons.

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/wint...e-m-s-mark


Cheers.

G

Post #509541 22nd Mar 2019 12:54pm
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JST



Member Since: 12 Dec 2013
Location: Somerset
Posts: 422

England 2012 Range Rover Westminster 4.4 V8 Stornoway Grey

Thank you.

i was of the understanding that a snowflake symbol indicated it was of different silica content, where as it only needs to be 25% better grip is what your saying, nothing to do with tyre compound? Cheers

James

Post #509542 22nd Mar 2019 1:12pm
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grey17



Member Since: 31 Aug 2018
Location: ha6
Posts: 54

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Alaska White

Hi James.

The Winter Tyre is THE specialist tyre for the colder months of the year and the soft compound makes it so. They also work extremely well on damp roads like we have here in the uk.

If you read through the link I posted, you'll come across the bit about the 25% being all that is required for a tyre to have the two, aforementioned markings.

These markings DO NOT qualify a tyre to be a Winter Tyre, merely that it is 25% better than the reference summer tyre that it was compared to.

Hope that makes sense!

G

Post #509543 22nd Mar 2019 1:19pm
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Rob99



Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1215

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Santorini Black

So, I guess the obvious question is "What markings indicate a proper winter tyre?" 2017 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography
2012 4.4 TDV8 Westminster - Gone, but not forgotten

Post #509546 22nd Mar 2019 1:35pm
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CS



Member Since: 14 Apr 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1093

Scotland 2017 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Corris Grey

The mountain snowflake symbol.

If you go on to ownerinfo.landrover you will see the winter tyres homologated by LR for 405s, there should be the same information for 322s somewhere. The list does include the Goodyear Duratrac which is not a 'mountain snowflake' tyre, and some which are not UK legal due to being studded, but there are at least three homologated mountain snowflake tyres, I think Pirelli Scorpion Winter, Michelin Latitude Alpin 2 and a Nokian. Continental Cross Contact Winter also in 21" and 22". Only Range Rovers since 1988


Last edited by CS on 22nd Mar 2019 2:20pm. Edited 2 times in total

Post #509551 22nd Mar 2019 2:11pm
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grey17



Member Since: 31 Aug 2018
Location: ha6
Posts: 54

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Alaska White

Hi Rob.

I guess you don't need specific markings for a proper Winter Tyre as it will say "Winter" or "Snow" or such like in massive letters on the sidewall. That's its sole purpose in life.

It will be supplied and marketed as a winter tyre and not omitting that the tread will have the characteristic sipes and tread pattern and be soft / slightly sticky to the touch.

The Germans and Austrians do great winter tyre tests every year and list all the best available for the forthcoming season and well worth looking at as they are very informative and educational Smile

Cheers.

G

Post #509552 22nd Mar 2019 2:18pm
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Grofus



Member Since: 24 Mar 2017
Location: Co Clare
Posts: 577

Ireland 2007 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Zermatt Silver

General Grabber AT3's have the mountain snowflake symbol.
Best tyre Ive used . I cant recommened them enough 2007 Vogue TDV8 in Zermatt Silver with Charcoal

Post #509570 22nd Mar 2019 6:25pm
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Grofus



Member Since: 24 Mar 2017
Location: Co Clare
Posts: 577

Ireland 2007 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Zermatt Silver

 2007 Vogue TDV8 in Zermatt Silver with Charcoal

Post #509574 22nd Mar 2019 7:07pm
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grey17



Member Since: 31 Aug 2018
Location: ha6
Posts: 54

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Alaska White

First one up here is a nice, concise video by Bridgestone about the major differences between winter, all season and summer tyres.

I'll track down a similar one I've seen for larger SUV's

A couple of others which also convey a good message.








Thanks

G

Post #509578 22nd Mar 2019 7:40pm
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Tugger



Member Since: 28 Feb 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 243

Scotland 2009 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Thanks for the pics, they look good. And going by the numerous recommendations, I think I know what my next set of tyres will be Cool 09 RR Westminster 3.6TDV8 - Stornoway Grey / Black interior
Nissan X Trail 1.6TDCi Tekna
Fiat 500 1.2

Post #509587 22nd Mar 2019 10:08pm
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AndrewM



Member Since: 21 Mar 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 7

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Stornoway Grey


DrRob wrote:
Andrew - got any piccies you can show us??

Picture of my 2010 MY L332 - With new GGAT3's 255/55/R20's - £159 each fitted

Post #509623 23rd Mar 2019 1:24pm
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Baltic Blue



Member Since: 13 Aug 2015
Location: Oldham/ Conwy North Wales
Posts: 2989

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Baltic Blue

I am still hoping that someone will add a picture of a new AT 3 in the spare wheel well.
Cheers
Mike. G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.

Post #509625 23rd Mar 2019 1:27pm
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AndrewM



Member Since: 21 Mar 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 7

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Stornoway Grey



Post #509636 23rd Mar 2019 2:53pm
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Baltic Blue



Member Since: 13 Aug 2015
Location: Oldham/ Conwy North Wales
Posts: 2989

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Baltic Blue

Thumbs Up Bow down
Thank you Andrew, having seen your picture, to confirm it fits in, they will be my next choice of tyres.
Cheers
Mike. G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.

Post #509637 23rd Mar 2019 3:25pm
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